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October 22, 2017
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I picked this VBob up news from my LGS this summer, they ordered it from Davidsons....
I have concealed carried this gun quite a bit, and the other day noticed quite a bit of rust on the hammer. Naturally, I sort of freaked out, it being a $1700+ gun that I traded 4 quality firearms to get, including a Walther PPK/S that I concelaed carried for a year without any blemishes.
I emailed Keith, and I have to tell you guys, I am really upset by his response.
"This is a tool steel part, which means High carbon. Sweat will make it rust/blue. It can be reblasted to make it white again but with constant carry is likely to rust again. We could also send it out to be hot blued, or save some money by buffing it and cold blueing it yourself."
I cannot fathom that DW would make a near $1800 concealed carry gun with a hammer that is simply designed to rust out like an old garden rake, and that someone at DW said "yeah, that's ok." I've been CCWing since 1998 and I've never, ever had one of my guns rust. Glock, HK, SW, Walther, FNS, Remington. Not a one of those guns cost me even half what the DW did. I have less than 100 rounds through this gun.
I honestly might just take it back to my LGS, have then send it back to Davidsons and be done with it, and use the money to get something that is REALLY designed for this.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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"simply designed to rust out like an old garden rake" might be a little strong. Are you equating DW's choice of material/finish on this part as an attempt to produce and install a substandard part? I understand your frustration with this issue on a relatively new, pretty high $ gun, my guess is that some discussion with Keith might get a more satisfactory result. Much of what I see on DW Factory resolution of issues is overwhelmingly positive.
I hope this works out well for you.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
October 22, 2017
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Well, obviously I am frustrated that a carry gun would come with any part that will rust with normal use... exponentially so when the gun comes at that price point, and is otherwise fantastic.
I think my frustration is partially at the response, which indicates that a fix will be on my dime, and partially in DW letting a gun go out the door with this known flaw as opposed to engineering a fix.
I am not a gunsmith or comfortable with removing the hammer myself, so I would have to pay a gunsmith to do so, even if I did the cold bluing myself.
But that brings me back to: Why are they shipping guns for concealed carry with a known rust issue when used as intended? To me, that IS them installing a substandard part.
I'm frankly embarassed to even bring it back to the LGS because I am going to get such a razzing from the Glock (we put ours in the dishwasher to clean them) and Sig crowds that dominate that space. And I have no good comeback to "so your $1700 gun is rusty after 4 months? You could have bought 3 Glock 19s for that much money..."
You know how it goes. It decimates my pride in ownership.
This will also be the first firearm I've ever had to to send back for service. I'm just really dissapointed, is the long and short of it.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Frustration is both obvious and understandable. I strongly urge you to call DW, keep pushing up until you get either a resolution, or you talk to Keith. If all of that results in no satisfactory resolution, that would be worthwhile for us to know.
Unless you are carrying in very unusual conditions, I don't think that any well lubricated and maintained, properly holstered quality gun should rust. JMHO
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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Dans Club
December 4, 2011
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I wonder if you could get DW to install a stainless hammer or at the least a blued one. I will have to look at my Valor but I thought the hammer was stainless on that gun. I don't recall having one rust on any of my DW 1911's. I'd do what Steve suggested and try to talk directly to Keith and see what you can work out.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
October 22, 2017
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"All of our hammers, sears and disconnects are machined out of tool steel, just like any gun you would get from Wilson, Night Hawk, Les Baer or Ed Brown. Unlike the MIM parts you find in Remington, Springfield, Kimber, Ruger, S&W, SIG, Etc.
Tool steel is the absolute best material for a nice crisp, clean trigger pull that will last a lifetime.
Every person is different and has a different chemical makeup. I have carried a Tool steel hammer for years and never had rust or tarnish but that is me. I have seen other people touch stainless and make it rust within 24 hours. Yours is more of a tarnish, not really a pitting rust."
Again, still miles away from what I would hope would be the response given how much I spent on this gun.
I know a good deal about steel being a knife collector, and I know they could have easily made just as precise a part out of a higher quality steel that would resist rust. High carbon steel is an upgrade from MIM but be it 1095, 1060, O1, A2, etc are fair, but they could have used D2, or better yet, since they are a few miles from Crucible in Syracuse, they could have made them out of one of their CPM metals like M4, or 3V, etc.
I'm not sure if I have the energy to go on a complain fest or if DW even has any solution for me. I'm thinking my solution is to get rid of the gun, and get something else, and know that I at least gave it my best shot in supporting a local company.
At this point, this is just leaving a bad taste in my mouth and since 50% of the reason I got this gun was for the warm fuzzy feeling... I'm down to less than a 50% reason to keep it (superior performance) because parts are rusting out on it already...
I'm really, really bummed out. Words can't describe. I gave two really really great guns and two good guns for this one grail gun...
And who wants a rusty grail?
October 22, 2017
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The response above in quotes was from Keith, BTW. So 3 emails to him and that is his last response, I honestly don't see much of a 'how can we make this right' energy there.
More of a "sucks to be you with your kind of sweat" attitude.
I had a problem with a Council Tools axe last winter, their hardening process failed and they sent out some bad axes. I got long, detailed explanations from their VP who responded to me at 10pm on New Years Day and had a replacement axe with freebies in the mail to me the next morning. None of that did I ask for, I simply sent him a photo of the chip and asked him what I should do. THAT is the sort of customer service I hoped for, the kind I got on a $140 axe...
October 22, 2017
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Putting it up for consignment tomorrow at Boltworks Tactical Firearms in Dryden NY for anyone who wants it. I'm going to have them mark it for $1400. $366 less than MSRP. Less than 100 rounds through it.
I tried.
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Dans Club
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February 4, 2017
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I certainly understand frustration when I read it (and just about every time I try to talk with the woman in my life) so I am empathetic.
In the whole issue laid out here you have voiced complaints but never said what you expected from the company. Did you ever mention to Dan Wesson exactly what you expected them to do?
It's pretty easy to find fault when you are frustrated. If I read things correctly you have not talked with Keith "directly" but only vented your frustration via emails. Emails lack nuance and personality...maybe a telephone call or in person visit (since you are that close) would save the day?? I would suggest that you be up front about what it is you expect...maybe if you gave them the material they could mill a new hammer for you from one of those fancy alloys you mentioned.
"LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO SPEND IT WITH AN UGLY GUN!" - John Taffin
December 19, 2014
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I’m a bit curious as to the location of the discoloration on the hammer. Is it only on top (as seen in the pic) where your thumbs makes contact?
October 22, 2017
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No, it is all over, down in the little groves, etc. Everywhere. Keith calls it a patina, but to me it looks like what happens to the undercarriage of a car in this area after one winter. The rust grabs on and spreads everywhere.
My fear: If I have rust all over the part that I can see and lube, what is happening internally that I can't get to?
That photo was taken AFTER I used CLP and tried to clean it up, too... it looked much worse before that.
He suggested I pay and have someone hot blue it or cold blue it, but my God, I just paid a fortune for this thing, I shouldn't have to then pay to try and stop it from rusting.
I also don't like the idea of me having to beg for them to do the right thing, or to play the Mayor card (I am the Mayor of a village not far from them) or any of that nonsense. I wanted it to just be a simple "hey, that shouldn't be, but fear not, we will make it right."
None of Keith's emails seemed to express to me that he gave too much of a blank, even with my first one being me telling him how excited I was to be able to get one, what I did to get it, etc. They were all, in short: "Tough break, sweaty."
But as I got this to be a carry gun, I see this as a major flaw. If I was just using it as my fun shooter or for competing, I would be fine. And I am not a guy who has safe queens, everything I have has to be a user, so I don't mind some cosmetic issues, but this just seems to be rusting out at such an alarming rate that I have lost confidence in it as a carry gun.
Other than this issue, the gun is amazing, and I would not rain on your parades for owning them, if I could afford to have one just for fun I would, but I'd get the full sized for that. But I cannot afford that, not when I can replace it with two or three handguns for that price.
No, the warm fuzzies are gone. It's packed up in the case and ready to go away. It pretty much puts the death knell on that shop ever selling them as well, as I was the Dan Wesson evangelist there in a sea of glock-heads. Now I go back with my tail between my legs and get something without soul, but at least that I know I can count on.
So depressing. Sorry to be such a bummer. This really does break my heart.
February 20, 2008
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"they ordered it from Davidsons"
Get a new gun.
If you're going to drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
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