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January 22, 2008
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I'm thinking about getting one of these... anyone have one?
February 20, 2008
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Yup - for ten years. Follow the instructitons and wait 45-90 days.
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If you're going to drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
January 22, 2008
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I requested the application on the ATF site last night so hopefully I'll get it in short order.
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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Jody:
Keep us posted. I've been considering this also.
Thanks,
-Mike
February 20, 2008
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Anyone with an interest should have one of these. The ATF site lists the current firearms candidates. I really makes purchasing a recognized item from out of state very easy. Just keep the necessary records they require and remember, it is not for buying then selling, it is for collection.
Should anyone have further question, I will be glad to answer what I can...just send me a pm.
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If you're going to drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
November 14, 2009
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photohause said:
Anyone with an interest should have one of these. The ATF site lists the current firearms candidates. I really makes purchasing a recognized item from out of state very easy. Just keep the necessary records they require and remember, it is not for buying then selling, it is for collection.
Should anyone have further question, I will be glad to answer what I can...just send me a pm.
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OK, here is my question, What is a C&R FFL???
Happyness is a Hot DW and a pile of used brass!!! Rich
May 17, 2010
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FFL is Federal Firearms License. The 'big" deal use to be a Class 3 ( class III) license which lets one buy/sell full auto guns.
I have not kept up with any of that as I never intended to pursue a full auto anything. However, in recent years an FFL is generally required when buying and selling guns across state lines ( as I understand it). Thus when I bought my first DW over the internet, it had to be delivered to an FFL dealer to whom them I had to pay a small fee for his effort. He is charged with doing the instant background check and with permanently keeping paperwork on me and my purchase. The FBI come to visit him about once a quarter to check on his paperwork. The "yellow sheet" came into being in 1969.
Not sure what C&R is exactly. In MS (mississippi) we have a CCW/CCL Conceal carry weapon/conceal carry license. For MS its $100 plus $36, with a renewal fee of $36 every 5 years. I am pressing my wife and possibly my daughter to get these.
EDIt: Looks like C&R FFL is Curio and Relic FFL: a special class of FFL for collectors. From what I read, DW do not currently fit within the definition. But my old Parker double would!
Soap Box, Ballot Box, Ammo Box
in that order.
4 Monson Model 15's
1 Palmer FB 15
1 Rossi 357 Model 92 (lever)
1 CZ 75B
February 20, 2008
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"Not sure what C&R is exactly."
Enough said.
Do your home work - its on line!
If you're going to drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
February 16, 2010
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Even if you're not interested in old guns a C&R can be a useful thing as there are many big distributors (like Brownells) that give C&R licensees "Dealer Pricing".
November 14, 2009
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photohause said:
"Not sure what C&R is exactly."
Enough said.
Do your home work - its on line!
Thanks for the answer, I appreciate spending hours and hours looking up $tupid $hit on the government websites. I guess the answer was too difficult
Happyness is a Hot DW and a pile of used brass!!! Rich
November 14, 2009
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I wrote this article a while ago for a forum that I belong to. If
you have any questions about obtaining your 03 FFL I suggest that you
visit the ATF website (see end of article). I believe the information
and links provided to be accurate but proceed at your own discretion.
There are 9 types of Federal Firearms licenses (FFL's):
Type 01: Dealers
Type 02: Pawnbrokers
Type 03: Collector of Curios and Relics
Type 06: Firearms Ammunition Manufacturer
Type 07: Firearms Manufacturer
Type 08: Importer of Firearms/Ammunition
Type 09: Dealer in Destructive Devices
Type 10: Manufacturer of Destructive Devices
Type 11: Importer of Destructive Devices
More information can be found here:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/nlc/ffl/ffl_types.htm
Overview of the Type 03: Collector of Curio and Relic FFL
Most gun collectors will be interested in the Type 03: Collector of
Curios and Relics (C&R) FFL. This type of license is very easy to
obtain and cheap as well. The fee to obtain the license is $30 for a
3-year license, only $10.00 a year! The main benefit of the Type 03 FFL
is that you can obtain old military surplus rifles (typically 50+ years
old, but there are exceptions) directly from the importers without
having to go through a gun shop/dealer (and the associated markup) and
they can be sent directly to your door. There is a minimum of paperwork
that must be kept when using this FFL, nothing like the detailed records
that must be kept by a Type 01 Dealer. The main point to remember is
that this FFL was created for the "Collector of Firearms" not for the
dealing in firearms. The actual disclaimer as written on the license
states "This license does not authorize the holder to engage in the
business of dealing in any firearms".
What about BATF Inspections?
Some folks may be turned off by the idea of being able to be
inspected by the BATF since they are 03 FFL holders. The facts are that
the BATF may only perform a compliance inspection once per year. They
must contact you before hand and you can arrange to have the inspection
at your home OR at the nearest BATF office to you. They are not looking
at you non-C&R collection, only your C&R firearms and the
associated paperwork. I personally have only heard of one person that
has ever been approached about having an inspection, so to me it's
pretty much a non-issue in deciding whether or not to get a C&R FFL.
What kind of paperwork do I have to keep?
The paperwork that you are required to keep is minimal. You only
need to enter C&R purchases made after you receive you license,
nothing from before. You do need to create (or purchase) a "Bound Book"
to keep your entries of purchases and dispositions in. Brownells sells a
bound book for $3.00 or you can find templates online and print out
your own. When you receive and firearm into your collection you must
note the manufacturer/importer, model, action type, caliber, date
received, and the name and address and/or FFL number of the person or
company that you purchased the gun from. If you sell a firearm you have
to fill out similar information about the person who is receiving the
firearm, no background checks and no Form 4473 is required. You will
need to obtain a photocopy of their Drivers License or FFL. When and if
you decide to quit collecting firearms and decide not to renew your 03
FFL you are NOT required to turn in any of your documentation to the
BATF, unlike a 01 FFL Dealer is required to do. I would suggest keeping
the paperwork anyways at least for your personal records.
So I can I sell any of my C&R Firearms?
This type of FFL, as mentioned, is for collecting firearms but you
can sell the occasional firearm as well, typically to enhance your
collection. For example, you have an opportunity to purchase a mint
condition German K98 Mauser but you already have one that's in fair
shape. For some reason you decide that you only want 1 of these guns in
your collection you can sell the one that you do not want. The main idea
here is that if the BATF perceives that you are in the business of
dealing in firearms they may take a closer look. So you can purchase and
sell firearms to enhance your collection, not to order firearms for
your friends. Have them get their own C&R license, once they see how
much fun your having they'll probably ask you how to get started!
I think this is for me! How do I start the paperwork!?
First off you must be 21 years old. If you are prohibited from
owning firearms for a past law violation or cannot pass the NICS check
(the typical call in background check) then you will most likely be
turned down for this license.
The paperwork required to obtain your license is simple. You will
need a total of two forms to fill out, although one form must be filled
out in duplicate. The first form is almost identical to a Form 4473,
which you have filled out if you've ever purchased a firearm from a gun
shop. The only additional information is that you will need to put down
is the name and address of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your
area. This might be your Police Chief or Sheriff depending on where you
live. You will need to send a copy of your application to the Chief Law
Enforcement Officer (CLEO). They have no say in whether or not you can
get your license! It is done per BATF regulation only. The second form
is called a Certificate of Compliance, which is a short form asking if
you are a legal resident of the US. This second form is fairly new, make
sure that you include both forms, if not your license will be delayed.
Both forms can be found here - Forms for obtaining your C&R License
(Be aware these forms are in Adobe Acrobat format, you may need to
go to http://www.adobe.com to download their free Acrobat Reader)
Make sure that you mail your two forms with a $30.00 check or Money
Order to the address shown on the form which is in Dallas, TX, do not
send these forms to your local/regional ATF office. Send the copy of the
application to your local CLEO, no need to include the Certificate of
Compliance or the $30.00 check (unless you want to donate to their
re-election fund, lol)
O.K, Forms sent, now what?
Now you begin the most difficult process, the wait! It will seem
like it's taking forever and the deals are passing you by, but not to
worry. The typical response to the wait to get your license is 4-6
weeks, although many times it's faster. I received mine in 23 days. Take
this time to search the web for various importers and dealers that have
Curio and Relic firearms, and bookmark them. Keep a list of the
promising ones, you can send them your license once it arrives. I would
also suggest subscribing to "Shotgun News". This periodical is loaded
with importers and dealers, you get to see everything that's on sale
plus there are good articles as well. Be aware that the Shotgun News
that you may purchase at the newstand or bookstore is usually 1 issue
behind the ones sent to subscribers.
You will eventually receive two packages from the ATF often a few
days apart. They come from two different locations. In one package,
which typically comes first, there are numerous publications and forms.
The majority of the forms and signage are for 01 FFL holders (we both
get the same packages). There is a blue "Youth Handgun Safety Notice"
brochure that you should keep in case you sell a C&R handgun, your
required to give it to the purchaser. The second package will contain
your 03 C&R FFL license.
Yeah, It's Here!
Congratulations! It finally arrived! You are officially a "CRUFFLER"!
The first thing you want to do is make plenty of copies;
DO NOT SIGN THE ORIGINAL LICENSE!!!
When you send your FFL out to various dealers it must be signed in
ink, an original signature. Many places request that you sign in blue or
red ink to verify that it is not a photocopy. Now pull out that list
you made of all the dealers/importers that you were going to send your
license too and add a couple more, send a copy to Brownells, Numrich and Midway.
These are all suppliers of shooting accessories, reloading equipment
and parts. Numrich also sells curio firearms on occasion as well. They
all offer discounts to all FFL holders, and that"s you now!
I typically include a note in with the FFL asking to be placed on
any mailing lists that they have and request a catalog. Include your
e-mail address as well, several companies will send out flyers and
special purchases via e-mail as well. Send these out to all prospective
companies. It is much easier to call (or go online) and order the
firearm you want without having to take the time to mail your FFL and a
check, some deals don't last that long.
Hopefully these instructions have helped you your Curio and Relic FFL, now get out there and start collecting!!
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm - list of C&R eligible firearms
There's a whole list of FAQ's over at http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/index.htm as well as the C&R weapons list.
Happyness is a Hot DW and a pile of used brass!!! Rich
November 14, 2009
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// <
ATF.gov is an official site of the U.S. Department of Justice
Happyness is a Hot DW and a pile of used brass!!! Rich
November 14, 2009
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Is that enough flipping homework for ya!?!?!?
Happyness is a Hot DW and a pile of used brass!!! Rich
February 20, 2008
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Hey mox - I offered to assist, but when the question came down to the basic
"what is it" all I meant was to look it up...not to be flippant...I apologize if it came across that way. It is a simple seach to find out, not volumes and volumes to read through.
It really is a very simple procedure... the ATF has a list of what you may collect....
you must adhere to their record keeping requests, and you can not buy with intent to
sell. You are not a dealer...you are a collector....and you must abide with your local and state laws...such as, you my see a class III machine gun on the C&R list and you can buy it, if, your local LEO and state allow it. Expect to be have a finger print card filled out and submitted with your application, and a backgound check, along with an application fee. I beleive you need to renew it every 3-4 years...prints and all.
Once again - I do apologize if I was not friendly for your answers. When I applied, I did what you did and read ATF and asked questions.
Hope this helps, and you guys can still call me if you don't think I'm a total butthead, like my wife does.
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If you're going to drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Lots of good and interesting info here, along with some grumpiness about how some things got said.
Grumpytime is over.
Thanks,
Steve
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
July 27, 2010
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Beware that this can be really expensive. 
I used to collect WWII/WWI guns. Being able to buy and have them delivered straight to your door gave me a surplus of guns and a shortage of cash.
It's really easy and worth it if you are going to buy C&R guns.
February 11, 2010
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Wheeler said:
Beware that this can be really expensive.
It's really easy and worth it if you are going to buy C&R guns.
Must be a sister flu to the 
-Blacktop
February 20, 2008
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Hey - Mox and I are buying a round of beers
for the house~!
If you're going to drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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photohause said:
Hey - Mox and I are buying a round of beers
for the house~!
I like this, everybody happy!
Best shooting Site on the Web
Dare I say-It's still fun.
Steve
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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