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November 17, 2008
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The subject of hand loads for defense came up in another thread. All my adult life I have loaded 90% of my center fire ammo. Also I have heard most of my adult life that I should not use hand-loads for defense, but the only reason for this I have ever heard is reliability. Well I say horse feathers as my experience is my hand loads are more reliable than factory stuff as I have only ever had one FTF with my stuff and have had many with the factory stuff. I trust MY loads more than I trust factory loads. Now not to say factory stuff isn't good because it is very good. But now to the point of this post. Someone finally gave me a good reason to use factory ammo for defensive use. This link to a Grant Cunningham article explains it where it makes sense to me finally. I have found other references, but this is the one I could find as I typed this thread. Any way I thought this might stimulate some interesting discussion.
What do ya'll use?
http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/2167be380c971d751694131258750ec5-1028.html
LB
Wisdom is merely the realization of how little one knows, therefore I am wise.
February 26, 2012
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I carry factory ammo. I do so for various reasons, one of which the article brings up. The biggest reason is that I can't find loading data for the bullet I choose to carry.
I take issue with the article only in so far as that factory ammo doesn't necessarily use canister powder. The factories use what ever gives them the velocity and pressure they want from a particular set of components they are using. A comparison of blast patterns, entrance holes etc. could be invalid if there is a change of powder.
Before anyone screams I don't advocate carrying factory or handloads. I only state what I, myself, do.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Interesting question, and my answer is:
Factory only.
I think the issue here is the ability to test and repeat results based on the credilibilty of a manufacturer to state unequivocally that "xyz" ammunition demonstrated specific characteristics and results over a historic range of test data.
There is always the possibility that I loaded my own ammunition to produce a specific result that could be found to be outside the reasonable parameters of appropriate self defense. The question could be raised as to why I crafted ammunition that was outside a specification deemed suitable for law enforcement or military use, as defined by the mainstream ammunition manufacturers.
If I ever got into a legal situation regarding the suitability of ammunition I used, I'd like to (maybe) have Remington/Winchester/etc. there with me.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
February 11, 2010
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I agree with this part of the article :
" I put in ammunition made by someone who can supply a certified duplicate of what I've used should I need to shoot someone. Their word about the composition of the ammo will be accepted by the court, where mine wouldn't. "
-Blacktop
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December 4, 2011
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I carry factory ammo for the reasons listed in the article but I have to play devil's advocate here for a minute.
Lets run a realistic hypothetical situation. Say you reload and save all your spent factory cases to reload as most people who reload do. Say you shoot a box of Federal 45 acp 230 gn ball ammo. You then collect the brass, tumble it, and reload it with 230gn round nose copper bullets. Say you have that in your carry gun and are car jacked and shoot the car jacker. When all this comes to court, how is anyone going to know that the rounds you used were reloads and not factory rounds? I suppose a forensic analysis of powder traces and lead isotopes could determine the difference but that is all very CSI. In small town America I doubt that they are going to expend the resources to do that. So in a nut shell, what difference does it make?
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
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If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
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February 22, 2009
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Massad Ayoob wrote years ago to use only factory ammo for the same reasons stated. Made sense to me then and makes sense to me now, so that's what I use. If I should have to hire a defense attorney, that's one thing less we'll have to worry about.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
Range Officer
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Dans Club
February 9, 2009
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Very interesting read and educational. I too carry only factory defense ammo, but never becasue of the reasons Mr. Cunningham wrote about. I did not know of all these testings that may be required in the terrible event one ever has to use this ammo. My preference in my 9MM and .40 S&W that i frequently carry is Speer Gold Dot. It has proven in my firearms the most accurate and consistent over time.
SMF
A man cannot have too many SuperMags
February 11, 2010
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SCORPIO said
I carry factory ammo for the reasons listed in the article but I have to play devil's advocate here for a minute.Lets run a realistic hypothetical situation. Say you reload and save all your spent factory cases to reload as most people who reload do. Say you shoot a box of Federal 45 acp 230 gn ball ammo. You then collect the brass, tumble it, and reload it with 230gn round nose copper bullets. Say you have that in your carry gun and are car jacked and shoot the car jacker. When all this comes to court, how is anyone going to know that the rounds you used were reloads and not factory rounds? I suppose a forensic analysis of powder traces and lead isotopes could determine the difference but that is all very CSI. In small town America I doubt that they are going to expend the resources to do that. So in a nut shell, what difference does it make?
I hear ya, like a guy that would try to exactly replicate a 10mm, Remington case and a
Golden Saber bullet just like what Remington sells but a little hotter 
. In criminal
court you are probably right, but what about a surviving family that gets a shark for a
lawyer and brings a civil case later. You be damn sure Remington will do everything
they can to be sure that was not their ammo load......just saying.
-Blacktop
November 23, 2008
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Greetings
I carry my owm lead cast bullets. It is a 165 grain wadcutter. Whether 357 or 38 Special it ios the same bullet but to whatever fps is the most accurate in that particular revolver. I do not CC an auto loader. I could here in Peru but carry eiyther a 5 shot 38 or a 6 shot 357.
When the state of ILLinois is finally forced to obey the Constitution it will be a 5 shot 41 mag. Again it will be a cast wadcutter that drops about 207 grains. Whatever load is the most accurate will do duty. Probably about 950 - 1050 fps.
As I understand a defense situation the investigating officers are going to take my weapon as evidence. They will have all the extra ammo they need to compile the story as they present it. This will be the same ammo I practice with, punch paper with, teach others to shoot with and generally shoot alot of.
Mike in Peru 
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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missionary5155 said
As I understand a defense situation the investigating officers are going to take my weapon as evidence.
Maybe not commonly known, but true. Evidence can stay in their hands (and get lost) for a LONG time. If I need to use it, I will, but I need to be prepared to never see it again.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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