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Range Officer
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Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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For many years I've been considering getting an FFL and the topic came up again recently. So last weekend when my wife went to NC to visit family, she talked to her brother about it. She figured that if anyone on the planet would have one, he would. Anyone who knows him would think this.
Well, it turns out he doesn't have one. The reason is that as part of the application proceedure you sign an agreement which authorizes BATF to search your premises at any time. I don't know if this applies to all versions of the FFL license, such as the collectors version, but I think acquiring an FFL is no longer on my bucket list.
Now I have to do more research to determine if the collector's version requires this condition.
-Mike
February 16, 2010
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I have a C&R FFL and the "permission to search" bit is NOT part of the C&R agreement.
IIRC the "permission to search" bit does not apply to your private residence (unless you are running your business from home ... which apparently since Clinton you can't get an FFL tfor that anymore. You have to prove you have all the appropriate state and local licenses and permits and a properly zoned business location before you'll get your FFL).
If you're going to get an FFL its becaue you're planning on owning a brick and mortar gun shop.
February 20, 2008
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It is not worth it.. for many reasons...one of which is the mark upon
many guns is not a heck of a lot. And even if you have a business
out of your home, with proper county, city, state licenses,
you need to give BATF business hours of opperation for the FFL
part of the business.
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If you're going to drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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My point was just to get one to defray the cost of having my local FFL dealer receive guns for me. A $55.00 a shot, 3 times pays for the FFL. I was unaware of all the additional restrictions about your place of business.
I guess I'll have to look more carefully at the C&R version, although, from what I've seen written here in the past, it seems like a waste of time.
Oh well. thanks everyone for your responses.
-Mike
February 16, 2010
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If you buy a lot of C&R guns, a C&R FFL is a must have. Its $30 for 3 years and it'll pay for itself after transfering two C&R guns.
If you don't buy a lot of C&R guns they're still nice as you can get dealer pricing from a lot of places (like Brownels and Midway)
There's an old thread on THR that lists a bunch of the dealers that give dealer discounts for C&R folk.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=206780
Some will give you dealer pricing on non C&R guns as well (for most its dealier pricing on ammo and accessories).
Supporter
Moderators
Dans Club
February 22, 2009
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Zundfolge said:
If you buy a lot of C&R guns, a C&R FFL is a must have. Its $30 for 3 years and it'll pay for itself after transfering two C&R guns.
If you don't buy a lot of C&R guns they're still nice as you can get dealer pricing from a lot of places (like Brownels and Midway)
Some will give you dealer pricing on non C&R guns as well (for most its dealier pricing on ammo and accessories).
X2
It's a must have just for the discounts; many other places accept it for discounts as well
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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If I understand correctly, a C&R would not allow you to receive a modern firearm?
I'm sure in the PRI it's more challenging, but with some diligent research, I've found local FFL's that will handle incoming for $20.00 and outgoing for about the same, including shipping, for handguns. GunBroker has an FFL listing by zipcode that might help locate other possibilites, but I know that IL is probably a real PITA for transfers.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
October 13, 2009
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I have a local guy that does FFL end of things for me for $15 each. Very happy with that. But wanting to work on DW parts needing an FFL, I really need to get an FFL. But getting application really opened my eyes there is so much to deal with. I think they are tightening down the screws as with Class 07, the application I got you have to fill out stuff about the environmental inpact of your operation. I wouldn't be surprised if something else comes along making it more difficult with the dealer FFL too.
Eric
August 28, 2009
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i submitted my application for a Type 01 FFL two weeks ago. When the process is complete, I will let you know the details of the process and whether I was accepted or rejected. i can tell you the following up front now (for types other than C&R):
1) You need to show the intent to operate a legitimate business for profit (other than C&R). BATFE will not issue an FFL ( for any type other than C&R) for the sole purpose of acquiring firearms for personal collection (which includes intent of circumventing dealer transfer fees). A C&R is only valid for "C&R items" although some distributors and wholesalers may offre some discounts for non-firearm items.
2) You are required to establish hours of business operation. I believe there is a lot of lattitude here but there do need to be some fixed hours of operation. This will allow the BATFE inspector so show up, unscheduled, to your place of business to conduct inspections.
3) All the proper city and state licensing and zoning requirements need to be met. This includes, where applicable, an Occupational License from the City, Fictitious Name or DBA Registration, and State Sales Tax Certificate registration. There may be additional requirements depending on your state or locality. State Revenue departments may also track FFL licenses to verify that the applicable state sales taxes are paid. If you purchase items within your own state for your own consumption or resell items, you will need to pay the sales taxes on those items.
4) If the intended place of business is your home, it is open to unanounced inspections/ visits from BATFE. However, it is my understanding this applies only to the portion of the home that is designated for "the business". This I still need to verify.
The applicant really needs to assess the whether or not meeting and complying with the rules and regulations is worth the underlying motivations for acquiring the FFL.
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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Thanks Harly. I will look forward to your final report.
-Mike
February 16, 2010
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harly said:
4) If the intended place of business is your home, it is open to unanounced inspections/ visits from BATFE. However, it is my understanding this applies only to the portion of the home that is designated for "the business". This I still need to verify.
It is my understanding that since the Clinton Years you can't get an FFL for a home run business. Your business has to have a bonafied retail store type location (I guess if you lived in an apartment above your store or in a house in an area zoned retail with a little retail store attached to the front of it like a barbershop that might work).
Clinton made it a crusade to eliminate the "Kitchen Table Gun Dealers".
October 13, 2009
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My FFL guy does it out of the basement of his home. No signs or anything that its a gun shop, real nice house in a real nice neighborhood. Got to make an apointment to go over. I think the ATF may get you if all you're doing is transactions for yourself.
Eric
February 20, 2008
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I have a home based office for many years with all the required licenses.
I applied Post Clinton and made it through the entire process - they (BATF) were very helpful...
I pulled the plug at the very end because I started to travel again for business. They siad not problem.
Harley - best of luck - we'll look forward to hearing from you!
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If you're going to drink, don't drive. Don't even putt.
Supporter
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January 24, 2009
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My FFL does it out of his home too, and charges a little less per transaction than a gun shop FFL will in my area. Next time I'm over there, I'll have to ask him if the BATF gets to search his house whenever they want.
I would like to know if Utah's more relaxed laws would still make something like that a mandatory practice.
August 28, 2009
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ATF called today to set up an appointment for a 3-5 hr. interview at the house later this week. From preliminary phone discussions, it sounds like there shouldn't be any problems in issuing the license. If all goes well, I should have it in about 2 weeks. I'll post a follow-up after the session.
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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Thanks Harly. Looking forward to getting all of the answers from you.
-Mike
August 28, 2009
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Type 01 FFL has been stamped, approved, and in process. License should be arriving in 2-3 weeks. 
Here's what i can tell you - if anyone is playing with the idea of becoming licensed in their home to merely to try to save a few bucks and play around with it, don't bother. It's not worth it. Find yourself a dealer that you can hook up with that will give you reasonable transfer rates and stick with them. There's A LOT that you need to comply with (in addiion to fees) and it isn't worth it just for a casual transaction here and there. The interview was 5 hours. Every local, state, and federal law and regulation needs to be complied with. For example, I can no longer purchase a used gun, throw it in my safe, and sell it next week if I decide I don't like it. Now, i have to submit documentation to the local law enforcement as a second hand goods dealer, and the guns must be held for 15 days prior to disposal (State law)l. Any personal guns must now wear a tag and identified accordingly or logged in to distinguish from "dealer" inventory. And then there's state sales taxes, city and county registration fees, etc., etc. And even after all this, I can't do a FTF transfer at the premisis because city code doesn't allow it. And yes, they can show up at your house at anytime day or night if they want to do an inspection. So, to make a long story short, really think it though before you consider this avenue.
So with all that being said, now that I'm up to my arss in alligators here, if anyone has a need for the services of an FFL in FL, let me know. Once the license arrives I will establish with some of the distributors of arms and accessories. I'll try to start out doing special orders for a minimal fee above invoice so if there is anything anyone is looking for, let me know and maybe I can beat your local costs. Interstate sales will not incur sales tax and will generally offset the shipping and transfer costs on the receiving end.
Should be interesting.
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