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Dans Club
February 15, 2014
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It's great that CZ is taking another stab at re-introducing a sleeping classic like the DW revolver. It validates my belief in the genius of the design. Only a fool would think that CZ has put no strategic thought in the pricing. I just hope it works and then those of us who have with love collected the 20th century Dan's will see them appreciate in value and esteem. A successful line of revolvers will benefit everyone who owns a DW product. I'm pullin for 'em!
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DWF Supporters
May 11, 2011
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I emailed him, He said he got photo off CZ website, and that's not of actual gun.
October 1, 2012
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Willy...Thanks for finding out what was going on with that "picture". Its not the first time some one on GB confused me with their representation of what was for sale.
All said I think it is great that CZ is making DW revolvers again. The possibilities are pretty exciting ! !!
Hugelk
February 11, 2010
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willy said
I emailed him, He said he got photo off CZ website, and that's not of actual gun.
That photo the seller that is selling the $999 new model 715 is using is not the new model.
Look at the shroud, rib, hammer, sights, ejector rod and grip. All are the older style.
NEW MODEL
-Blacktop
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Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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The only thing wrong with the new gun, other than the high price, is the way they screwed up the vented rib. It's one of the best appearance features of the original and they messed it up. It looks like a cheap-out to me; like someone said, "we can save 50 cents a gun if we screw this up right".
Big business will never learn not to fix something that isn't broken.
JMO, but let the flames begin.
-Mike
February 11, 2010
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zoommb said
The only thing wrong with the new gun, other than the high price, is the way they screwed up the vented rib. It's one of the best appearance features of the original and they messed it up. It looks like a cheap-out to me; like someone said, "we can save 50 cents a gun if we screw this up right".Big business will never learn not to fix something that isn't broken.
JMO, but let the flames begin.
-Mike
Agree 100% on that one.
-Blacktop
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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I have resisted adding my (pretty worn out) opinion on the CZ involvement with the "new" 715 for a while, but I will jump in once more with:
TOO MUCH MONEY
At $799 this sells like crazy, and they can sell the accessories hand over fist. No problem with the gun, the problem is with the marketing
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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Moderators
January 24, 2009
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zoommb said
...like someone said, "we can save 50 cents a gun if we screw this up right".
Now THAT is one of the best summaries I've heard in a long time. 🙂 And it's probably not far off the mark! Damn bean counters, anyway...
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DWF Supporters
May 11, 2011
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October 13, 2009
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While I am someone that likes a deal too, I have to say from the standpoint of what I believe is involved in making the new 715, the MSRP isn't out of line. And for the ones that are on gunbroker, quite reasonable.
If you look in the files section here on the DWF at the price list from 1978, you'll see a 15-2 with the 6" "H" barrel assembly cost $248.20. In today's devalued dollars, that is $890.64.
I can say from the standpoint of CNC machines, CAD/CAM things can be made more efficiently (depending on what it is), but on the downside, at least what I have came across, there seems to be a huge gap in finding employees that are capable of making a quality product. You can automate to take care of that gap to the point of there is not much "hands on" work, but for certain things, you can't too easily. An older "classic" firearm like the Dan Wesson is one of them. Especially when you consider the quantities to be made, you would never recover your investment in automation.
Also, it has been my experience that there is much resistance to changing anything from the classical Dan Wesson designs for a broad spectrum of Dan Wesson enthusiasts. Take for example the "RH" shroud I came out with. I thought it would go over pretty well when you think of the practical applications of it (No need to drill and tap your original shrouds, scope positioned closer to barrel center line, etc) but unfortunately that hasn't been the case.
Of course, the economy is bad, so there is not alot of extra money out there, that coupled with people not realizing how devalued the dollar is and that something that seems expensive actually isn't, good examples selling on the used market for less, among other things, make it pretty tough.
I do wish CZ/Dan Wesson the best, and hope that we might see some large frame Dan's in the supermag calibers, but realistically, I think we have to understand that the glory days of Dan Wesson revolvers will not likely be repeated.
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Dans Club
March 25, 2013
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I suspect Eric is right. Like last time CZ tried, a small number of guns will be released. Whole generations of shooters look at todays revolvers the way we look at Civil War handguns. Museum pieces they wouldn't think of shooting. Semi auto pistols are all most shooters will buy. Law enforcement was the impetus for revolver sales. Now Glocks rule. Polymer is forever. Even 1911's are seen as outdated. Unless some action movie star makes them fashionable , they will become a curiosity.
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June 25, 2013
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Eric I am pleased as punch at the way you have described the true value of money as compared to the actual value of the product. Not many people see it the way you and I do.
You are also correct about skilled help in manufacturing as of late. We have the same issue in the re-emerging sector in southeast Michigan.
As far as the practicality of the RH BA's we are also on the same wavelength. I have two coming from your production run.
Based on your post above I have no qualms stating, You sir, have a good grasp of reality, an uncommon amount of common sense.
Arlen
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
December 3, 2013
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Talked to Shelly at Dan Wesson today. The initial production run of revolvers was about 200, all stainless.
If anyone wants the case the new Dans come in, they are $25. Black hard plastic outside, blue inside. The case holds the revolver and 3 barrels.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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rsm said
Talked to Shelly at Dan Wesson today. The initial production run of revolvers was about 200, all stainless.If anyone wants the case the new Dans come in, they are $25. Black hard plastic outside, blue inside. The case holds the revolver and 3 barrels.
Pretty interesting info, and this sort of explains the high MSRP. If you're only making 200 of something like the 715, assigning an artificially high MSRP makes sense, you are trying to force "value" where it does not otherwise exist.
Unlike CZ/DW's 1911 market, which has been hot for several years,CZ/DW's revolver market is pretty unremarkable.
If you are selling a few hundred of something that has a great "pre-history" you will find a few hundred people that will buy it for more than it is worth.
When Daniel B. started all this, he was not trying to ride the peak of rising sales and selling price. He looked S&W and Colt in the eye and said "I can do better than you, and at LESS money".
Anyone that wants to bring any S&W or Colt (even the vaunted Python) to shoot one on one, I'm ready.
The affordable DA revolver market today includes Taurus (OMG!!!), Ruger, and possibly Charter Arms (who makes a pretty decent revolver right here in the historic Connecticut Valley firearms manufacturing area).
Sorry for the rant, but the new CZ/DW is still not the "real deal" UNTIL is sells for $600-700.
FWIW, my "real" DW's are still more valuable than the new guns
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
December 3, 2013
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I'm not sure Dan Wesson could ever be profitable selling their revolver in the $600-700 range. With current pricing, they might be trying to capture a marketing niche similar to where their 1911s reside. To do this, it would require a high fit & finish level. If you compare the DW pricing to the S&W Performance Center pricing, they are in the ball park for 357s. Again, this is only meaningful if they are of similar quality. As yet, I don't know if they are.
I have 2 Dan Wesson 357s from the late 70s. I bought them new. Never a problem. One is a pistol pac. Over the years, I've bought barrel assemblies and other accessories. If the new production run would have included blued guns, I would have seriously considered getting one.
I see the current limited production run as a way to test the market and a way to relearn building revolvers. If it wasn't for CZ, corporate attitudes and all, would there even be a Dan Wesson?
Anyone know how many were made during the production run a couple of years ago?
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Dans Club
December 4, 2011
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They offer the gun in a case with slots for extra barrels, but they don't offer any barrels other than the 6VH. I wish they'd offer a complete pac. I wonder if they expect everyone to order custom shrouds? They changed the design of the top strap and rib so I doubt the old shrouds would look right mounted to the new frames.
I think they made between 150-200 in the last production run. I see a pattern here. I'm wondering if they are banking on these guns becoming limited editions. I figure that in the long run, they will appreciate in value like all guns seem to do since production voulumes are so low.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
October 13, 2009
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Thanks Arlen, but if I had "common sense" I would be sitting on the beach while I was making money out of thin air, not messing around trying to make something tangible, the hard way. 
For sure, it is of course critical the new 715's be up to par, or I could see them developing a "Palmer" reputation. 200 is a little surprising to me that it is "that high" considering the numbers I usually deal with. Maybe they are thinking 200 might be a multi-year stock of 'em?
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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rsm said
I see the current limited production run as a way to test the market and a way to relearn building revolvers. If it wasn't for CZ, corporate attitudes and all, would there even be a Dan Wesson?
They tested the market once before, the initial response was WOW!!!
then the guns hit the marketplace at pretty substantial $$$, and the ultimate response seemed to be
"What did I just spend over $1000 on?"
Used "new" 715's were readily available in my area in the $600 neighborhood.
Many used DW 1911's sell close to original MSRP these days, because DW did the smart thing, and sold a tight, solid, feature loaded 1911 at a pretty strong MSRP. The 1911 marketplace bought in, and used guns go pretty high in the aftermarket.
Regrettably, DW/CZ thought the revolver marketplace would respond similarly to a.357 Stainless DW revolver. The revolver marketplace these days is much smaller, and probably smarter. The "new" 715 does not seem to bring $1200 of value in the current firearms marketplace.
I'm pretty willing to be the "Grumpy Old Bastard" on this subject, I always fall back on the concept that "if it's worth it to you, my opinion does not matter"
Steve
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
December 3, 2013
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Steve CT said
rsm saidI see the current limited production run as a way to test the market and a way to relearn building revolvers. If it wasn't for CZ, corporate attitudes and all, would there even be a Dan Wesson?
They tested the market once before, the initial response was WOW!!!then the guns hit the marketplace at pretty substantial $$$, and the ultimate response seemed to be
"What did I just spend over $1000 on?"
Used "new" 715's were readily available in my area in the $600 neighborhood.
Many used DW 1911's sell close to original MSRP these days, because DW did the smart thing, and sold a tight, solid, feature loaded 1911 at a pretty strong MSRP. The 1911 marketplace bought in, and used guns go pretty high in the aftermarket.
Regrettably, DW/CZ thought the revolver marketplace would respond similarly to a.357 Stainless DW revolver. The revolver marketplace these days is much smaller, and probably smarter. The "new" 715 does not seem to bring $1200 of value in the current firearms marketplace.
I'm pretty willing to be the "Grumpy Old Bastard" on this subject, I always fall back on the concept that "if it's worth it to you, my opinion does not matter"
Steve
How were the revolvers priced when Bob Serva owned DW?
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