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Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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I had the opportunity to listen to the President's Press Conference today, and the clear targets are:
"Military" style weapons
High capacity magazines
"Gunshow loophole"
My take is:
Military style weapons is a hopelessly broad description that encompasses so many weapons that I don't know how legislation is drafted. This would conceivably include 1911's, Beretta M-9's, SIG's, many shotguns, the Garand and M-1 Carbine, etc. And of course, the real target, the AR-15, but what about AR-10, Mini 14/30, and any number of foreign battle rifles?
High capacity magazines are almost certainly going to take a hit, while I don't concede the point, it seems inevitable.
Gunshow loophole, again I concede nothing, but I have never had an issue with every transaction requiring a background check (or a Permit which is verified as part of the transaction).
Phoney Baloney Joe Biden is point on this, and since he is both a lazy plagiarist and the author of the '94 AWB, my hope is that he will just go back to his Cliff Notes on that miserable failure and polish up that pig a little bit. He may well have to, because the Commander in Thief (oops, that just slipped out) has mandated quick action ready by the end of January.
The Press Conference included the obligatory need for better management of mental health care, and reference to a culture that embraces and glorifies violence (video games and movies).
Hard times coming.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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Dans Club
December 4, 2011
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I don't understand what they mean by the 'gunshow loophole'? I've gone to many and bought some guns at shows and they ALWAYS run the background check EVERYTIME, no exception. Its the law here in PA, and I assumed in the rest of the US. Am I wrong?
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
September 25, 2012
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At one time those in the know and positions of power "knew" the earth was flat.
the gunshow loophole is part of the flat earth society's belief system.
Like all things human there are bound to be some abuses but where do they get this 40% figure they've been talking about.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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This would not be legal in CT. I did a FTF with a friend, selling him a pistol. I had to get approval from the DPS, which involved me calling in my permit number and his. I got an authorization number, and had to fill out 4 copies of a form that both of us signed. One for each of us, one to DPS, one to his local PD. Just the same as buying/selling with a dealer.
And I know that the paperwork was reviewed because I transposed two digits in the serial number and got a call from DPS to clarify-they knew what gun I had bought two years earlier and they needed to correct the paperwork.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
August 28, 2009
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The gun show loophole refers to the private sale of firearms at guns shows. At most gun shows there is a gathering of private sellers that rent floor space, set up shop, and buy and sell as private collectors. There are no federal regulations or background checks overseeing those transfers, other than state regulations in those states which prohibit FTF handgun transfers without channeling the proper documentation through the appropriate state agency. So in a state like Florida where there are no regulations regarding handgun transfer, it's a free for all between buyers and sellers with no traceability, no background checking, no documentation, etc. A buyer comes in with cash and walks out with a firearm, even a handgun, no questions asked. The gun shows become a collective gathering between these private buyers and sellers, turning over large volumes of transfers, all with absolutely no regulation. It becomes a place where those prohibited from owning firearms can attend, and easily acquire as many firearms as they wish, no questions asked. Often it becomes a source of firearms for fueling the interstate trade of handguns into those states which tightly regulate handgun transfers. This is the gun show loophole.
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Dans Club
December 4, 2011
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OK, now I understand. Pennsylvania is a very gun friendly state but we require backround checks on all handgun transfers. I can see how what harly described as a real problem. I would think even the NRA would not be opposed to requiring that loophole to be closed. Not that it would have prevented what happened in CT but is could keep a convicted felon from buying a Glock to use on a bank job.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Thanks harly, that is pretty clear.
I risk the disapproval of others, but I don't like this opportunity for just anyone to buy a gun without a background check. I understand the fear that this puts in peoples minds that just anyone can buy a gun. I see enough idiots in the LGS that do not understand the basics of safety, firearms function, and firearms security to terrify me.
This is probably why there are virtually no gun shows in CT. I have never been to a real gun show, is it possible for the promoter/organizer to establish a NICS facility for background checks to be used by sellers, perhaps for a small fee?
This is likely to be unpopular, but I think it's inherent in the exercise of Second Amendment rights for the owners of guns to be legally eligible to own them.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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I find this Gallup Poll to be pretty interesting
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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Dans Club
December 4, 2011
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Here in PA all you need to run a background check is a cell phone. I assume the seller needs an account of some kind and since these folks are also FFLs, that is probablly their access. I've seen private sellers at shows walking around with a sign or something advertizing what they have for sale. If its a handgun, then both parties go to one of the FFL sellers and have them do the transfer for a nominal fee. All safe and legal.
I agree Steve, the thoughts of a handgun free for all at a show scares me too. I'd like to see that stopped.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
August 28, 2009
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Every time I go to the gun show here in Tampa or Orlando, I cringe. I agree with you guys 100% - it wouldn't bother me to see a background check requirement for all private transfers. I think it's a much better avenue to address these issues than to start banning law abiding citizens from ownership. What goes on at these gun shows here is scary and I don't agree with it either. It is literally a free for all between private buyers and sellers, and there's a lot of them. The .360DW that flashes up on the top banner every so often, I picked up at a gun show. I gave the guy cash, and out the door I went. This was before I became FFL licensed and did get the seller's ID info., but there is absolutely no regulation or traceability in these types of private transfers. I am expecting this might be something that the NRA may be suggesting in their cooperation to solve these problems.
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January 24, 2009
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SCORPIO said
Here in PA all you need to run a background check is a cell phone. I assume the seller needs an account of some kind and since these folks are also FFLs, that is probablly their access. I've seen private sellers at shows walking around with a sign or something advertizing what they have for sale. If its a handgun, then both parties go to one of the FFL sellers and have them do the transfer for a nominal fee. All safe and legal.
That's how it is here in the Utah gun shows I've attended, if you buy a gun from a private seller, there is still a background check involved & a paper trail to prove it.
It sounds to me that there may only be a few "loophole" states fueling this lefty debate, the rest of the states have a bit more common sense about private party gun sales at gun shows & require both parties to keep the transaction on the up & up. I agree that "not just anybody" should be able to buy a gun at a gun show without being given the green light via a background check.
Here in Utah, we are still able to legally do a FTF transaction without the hassle of involving a FFL or big brother, which I think is totally acceptable. The seller "vets" the buyer during the short conversation during the firearm examination, if the seller gets an indication that the buyer is some sort of creep, he will most likely decline to sell the gun to the buyer. I relate this method to the honor system & a handshake way of doing things...much like the sort of business out grandfathers would have done things. If someone gives you the creeps, you walk away from the deal. If everything feels good during the transaction, the seller will ask for the buyer's ID & to sign a bill of sale, then money changes hands & that's that.
I have bought a few guns in this FTF manner & I assume most other states' FTF requirements are much the same...except California of course, where air raid sirens go off automatically if anyone leaves their yard with a gun in their possession.
On a side note...I feel this school shooting is the perfect "crisis" (in the spirit of never let a good crisis go to waste) that the left & the anti's have been waiting for. Never in recent history has there been such a perfect excuse for the left to rally against the 2nd amendment. While this school shooting is despicable for all of us, I feel that 10 minutes after this story first hit the airwaves, the anti's all did a collective high-five & began rejoicing. This is the perfect excuse they've been waiting for! This will change the game for all of us responsible normal-minded citizens.
And on another side note (sorry for this novel of a post), I do think that the overall decline in our society is the top thing to blame in mass murder cases these days. Our youth are being systematically desensetized by violent video games & by realistic violence in movies. That combined with divorced & single parent families, in addition to throwing religion aside, greatly reduce a child's overall moral compass to guide their lives.
While I am not a religious person, I do believe that the greater majority of people do benefit from religion as a moral "anchor", so with religion removed from the equation, morality & decency spiral drastically out of control with many individuals, especially the weak minded individuals. The overall moral decline in our society in the past 50-60 years is IMO, the fundamental problem. Until that can be corrected, no amount of control & legislation will ever fix the problem.
Guns are not the problem.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Thanks for the updates on other places, and I'm glad to see that, so far, I'm not an outcast. I'm still uncomfortable with no NICS on FTF. While we might all be honorable guys and attempt to check out the other guy, not everyone is.
As I said, in CT a state approval is required on FTF. The one time I did it, it was about a five minute phone call, they just validate the CCW permit for both parties, and the state DPS is open for that about 360 days per year from mid morning until early evening. And in CT, it's "no permit, no handgun", although police officers can buy on their badge and ID.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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Dans Club
December 4, 2011
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FTF's in PA require an FFL. Sounds like some kind of NASA acryonym soup I'm typing.
The only FTF that doesn't need paper work is long guns and shot guns. If its a hand gun, you need an FFL.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
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November 17, 2008
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It is sad when good folks suffer for the crimes of a few nut cases. I am in Georgia which probably has the least strict laws I am aware of. FTF no paperwork involved its cash and carry. I personally would not sell to someone who seemed squirrely but who really knows what someone else will do. I also would have no problem with some form of simple check on private transfers, But (there is always a but isn't there) I worry about the give them an inch and they take a mile theory. Any loss of freedom, no matter how small, is one step closer to complete loss of freedom. If any of these proposed restrictions would actually make us safer I would probably support them but we all know that isn't the case. Why can't everyone see that. I am sure we are about to take a big hit on freedom. Well just my two cents worth. God bless America. We need it.
LB
Wisdom is merely the realization of how little one knows, therefore I am wise.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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It has been revealed that Adam Lanza was a very solitary and intense gamer, part of the basement was tricked out as a "gaming cave" with lots of firearms stuff there too.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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January 24, 2009
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Steve CT said
It has been revealed that Adam Lanza was a very solitary and intense gamer, part of the basement was tricked out as a "gaming cave" with lots of firearms stuff there too.
I'm not surprised in the slightest.
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Dans Club
March 27, 2009
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Kansas is one of those states! I have asked a question before, Can you legally own a firearm? I came close to selling one to a guy i had worked with, he offered, "cool cause i can't pass the back ground"! Needless to say I said sorry can't help you! I don't sell often, mostly if I do I know the person and know they are people of good back ground or permit holders. Do crooks get them at gun shows, maybe!
The worry I have if buying from a private seller is where did they get it? was it a walk in seller, is it stolen? I think I could agree that sales should be on paper at gun shows!
We had one show some young thugs decided to grab and dash, he never made 5 steps before tackeled and rather roughed upped!
I am hoping to leave to my kids a few choice guns! Now my hope is that as long as they are legal to own we can pass them down! FTF checks could even be mandated on families.
When I was kid we had to show id for ammo at all stores, they wrote it down in a bound book! Somewhere in time they stopped that, now they ask if for a hand gun!
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