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April 9, 2015
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Using the Jamison 357 Maximum Brass and CCI Small Pistol Magnum primers for 30 rounds I am ready for another day at the range with the 357 Super Mag and the chrono. I have also loaded 9 rounds using Federal Small Rifle Primers and 20 grains of H110.
I loaded 5 rounds of each of the following and the OAL is 1.895" - The 180 grain Hornady XTP have two cannelures which is nice as it will allow a longer OAL and no compression of the powder if the loads get that full. I also used a Lee Factory crimp die and crimped at the top cannelure. 19 grains 19.5 grains 20 grains 20.5 grains 21 grains 21.5 grains.
I have consulted the Sierra reloading Manual and the Hogdon's on-line Data and these loads seem to be with-in the safe zone. Will start with the 19 gr. and work up looking for pressure signs.
Hope I get to the range today. I will post the Chrono Data here when I do.
“We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more
humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.”
-Henry David Thoreau
“When some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether
they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes – remembering that it was
one of the best parts of my education – *make* them hunters.”
-Henry David Thoreau
DWF Supporters
April 9, 2015
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Here is the Chrono data. 5 Shot Strings working up the ladder. 19 grains, 19.5 grains, 20 grains, 20.5 grains, 21 grains and 21.5 grains of H110 and a CCI Small Pistol Magnum Primer No. 550 180 Grain Hornady XTP.
All shots were fired in double action and I did not have a single light primer strike or any issue with cylinder advance. Gap was set at .002" and I checked every chamber to make sure it would not bind up. Put on Pachmayr Rubber Grips. My Reloads were a vast improvement over the Jamison Factory Ammo. I did not see any worrisome pressure signs all cases ejected no problem and primers were not flattened even at 21.5 Grains. Might push this just a bit more.
Hope this data is useful to some. I will be testing MP-300 and 2400 for sure and possibly IMR 4227 if I can get some. 
Created: 06/15/15 12:54 PM
Description: Dan Wesson 357 super mag
Notes 1: H110 19 gr. CCI SPM no. 550
Notes 2: Hornady 180 gr XTP COL 1.895"
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: 83 °F
BP: 29.96 inHg
Shots:
# FPS / FT-LBS
5 1444 / 834
4 1459 / 851
3 1463 / 856
2 1475 / 870
1 1484 / 880
Average: 1465.0 FPS
SD: 15.3 FPS
Min: 1444 FPS
Max: 1484 FPS
Spread: 40 FPS
True MV: 1466 FPS
Created: 06/15/15 12:58 PM
Description: Dan Wesson 357 super mag 10" barrel
Notes 1: H110 19.5 gr. CCI SPM no. 550
Notes 2: Hornady 180 gr XTP COL 1.895"
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: 83 °F
BP: 29.96 inHg
Shots:
# FPS / FT-LBS
5 1431 / 819
4 1465 / 858
3 1502 / 902
2 1447 / 837
1 1486 / 883
Average: 1466.2 FPS
SD: 28.6 FPS
Min: 1431 FPS
Max: 1502 FPS
Spread: 71 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.2
True MV: 1467 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00
Created: 06/15/15 01:00 PM
Description: Dan Wesson 357 super mag 10" barrel
Notes 1: H110 20 gr. CCI SPM no. 550
Notes 2: Hornady 180 gr XTP COL 1.895"
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: 83 °F
BP: 29.96 inHg
Shots:
# FPS / FT-LBS
5 1438 / 827
4 1491 / 889
3 1532 / 938
2 1481 / 877
1 1471 / 865
Average: 1482.6 FPS
SD: 34.0 FPS
Min: 1438 FPS
Max: 1532 FPS
Spread: 94 FPS
True MV: 1484 FPS
Created: 06/15/15 01:08 PM
Description: Dan Wesson 357 super mag 10" barrel
Notes 1: 20.5 gr. H110 CCI SPM No. 550
Notes 2: Hornady 180 gr XTP COL 1.895"
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: 83 °F
BP: 29.96 inHg
Shots:
# FPS / FT-LBS
5 1512 / 914
4 1493 / 891
3 1478 / 873
2 1492 / 890
1 1500 / 899
Average: 1495.0 FPS
SD: 12.4 FPS
Min: 1478 FPS
Max: 1512 FPS
Spread: 34 FPS
True MV: 1496 FPS
Created: 06/15/15 01:12 PM
Description: Dan Wesson 357 super mag 10" barrel
Notes 1: 21 gr. H110 CCI SPM No. 550
Notes 2: Hornady 180 gr XTP COL 1.895"
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: 84 °F
BP: 29.96 inHg
Shots:
# FPS / FT-LBS
5 1526 / 931
4 1458 / 850
3 1485 / 882
2 1544 / 953
1 1543 / 952
Average: 1511.2 FPS
SD: 38.2 FPS
Min: 1458 FPS
Max: 1544 FPS
Spread: 86 FPS
True MV: 1512 FPS
Created: 06/15/15 01:15 PM
Description: Dan Wesson 357 super mag 10" barrel
Notes 1: 21.5 gr. H110 CCI SPM No. 550
Notes 2: Hornady 180 gr XTP COL 1.895"
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: 84 °F
BP: 29.96 inHg
Shots:
# FPS / FT-LBS
5 1578 / 995
4 1474 / 869
3 1541 / 949
2 1507 / 908
1 1534 / 941
Average: 1526.8 FPS
SD: 38.9 FPS
Min: 1474 FPS
Max: 1578 FPS
Spread: 104 FPS
True MV: 1528 FPS
Here is 20 Grains of H110 with Federal Small Rifle Primers.
Set: 45
Created: 06/15/15 01:18 PM
Description: Dan Wesson 357 super mag 10" barrel
Notes 1: 20 gr H110 Fed. SRP # 205
Notes 2: Hornady 180 gr XTP COL 1.895"
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: 84 °F
BP: 29.96 inHg
Shots:
# FPS / FT-LBS
4 1482 / 878
3 1437 / 825
2 1458 / 850
1 1494 / 892
Average: 1467.8 FPS
SD: 25.4 FPS
Min: 1437 FPS
Max: 1494 FPS
Spread: 57 FPS
True MV: 1469 FPS
Set: 41 Created: 06/15/15 01:04 PM Description: Dan Wesson 357 super mag 10" barrel Notes 1: 20 gr H110 Fed SRP #205 Notes 2: Hornady 180 gr XTP COL 1.895" Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00 Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000 Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00 Temp: 83 °F BP: 29.96 inHg Shots: # FPS / FT-LBS 5 1480 / 876 4 1467 / 860 3 1508 / 909 2 1498 / 897 1 1472 / 866 Average: 1485.0 FPS SD: 17.4 FPS Min: 1467 FPS Max: 1508 FPS Spread: 41 FPS Shot/sec: 0.2 True MV: 1486 FPS
“We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more
humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.”
-Henry David Thoreau
“When some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether
they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes – remembering that it was
one of the best parts of my education – *make* them hunters.”
-Henry David Thoreau
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DWF Supporters
October 11, 2009
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Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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You Sir, are a dedicated shooter and reloader!
I stand in awe of the data you produce, and the knowledge you clearly have.
Steve
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
Supporter
June 25, 2013
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Impressive.
What chrono are you using?
Would you recommend changing cartridge OAL using with the same powder charge in revolvers and then test.
As in 19gr H110 at 1.9", 1.8", 1.7" OAL.
Did you bench fire and find the best group?
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
DWF Supporters
April 9, 2015
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Steve CT said
You Sir, are a dedicated shooter and reloader!I stand in awe of the data you produce, and the knowledge you clearly have.
Steve
Steve,
I was simply fortunate enough to have an old-timer show me the re-loading ropes with .38 Special to shoot through my GP100. Anyone who can shoot safely can learn how to re-load safely. I encourage you to look into getting started, as it is an enjoyable and rewarding hobby. For some of these Dan Wesson Calibers, it is a necessity as I don't think you can buy factory ammo for several. Glad you enjoy the data.
“We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more
humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.”
-Henry David Thoreau
“When some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether
they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes – remembering that it was
one of the best parts of my education – *make* them hunters.”
-Henry David Thoreau
DWF Supporters
April 9, 2015
Offline
Maxwell 'Arlen' Silver said
Impressive.What chrono are you using?
Would you recommend changing cartridge OAL using with the same powder charge in revolvers and then test.
As in 19gr H110 at 1.9", 1.8", 1.7" OAL.
Did you bench fire and find the best group?
Arlen,
I am using the Caldwell Ballistic Precision Kit. It is really just a basic chrono that links to an iPhone or iPad and the Caldwell APP is what really makes the data collection and sharing of the data a breeze.
http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/628006/caldwell-ballistic-precision-chronograph-premium-kit
What you are suggesting with changing the OAL would certainly work (but in the opposite direction- you usually want longer OAL not shorter) for the purpose of improving accuracy with Bolt Action rifles, as the purpose is to get closer to the rifling/lands and decrease what is called "bullet jump". Usually bolt action reloaders load .002" up to touching the lands when figuring seating depth. They use a Hornady overall length gauge to figure this. You can read up on "Bullet Jump" and "Ojive" if you are interested in more info.
I am not sure of the impact of changing the OAL in revolver cartridges (going longer OAL), as they still have to "jump" a relatively significant distance before engaging the rifling. HOWEVER, bullet seating depth in revolvers would CERTAINLY have a PROFOUND impact on pressure if you go shorter to the point you might get a BIG BOOM and a broken gun or worse. I will most likely not do what you are suggesting with OAL in these .357 Super Mag loads or any revolver load. However, these 180 Hornady have two different cantillures and I will most likely experiment with seating to these two different depths, mainly because the longer depth will allow for more powder. BUT I will certainly be reading up on this before putting much more than 21.5 grains of H110. I guess in general, it would be okay to go a little longer OAL as long as it fits in the chamber and doesn't bind the cylinder, but probably not such a good idea to go shorter as pressure could spike and too much pressure causes bad things to happen.
Are you a reloader? would like to learn from your experience.
“We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more
humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.”
-Henry David Thoreau
“When some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether
they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes – remembering that it was
one of the best parts of my education – *make* them hunters.”
-Henry David Thoreau
Supporter
June 25, 2013
Offline
Right now I'm reloading 9mm lugers for a Ruger SR9c. Different parameters with these. I am familiar with the concept of freebore and with a revolver "the gap".
I work up reloads by hand using a Lee Hand press and with a semi-auto a lot more factors come in to play.
There is so much involved with reloading for different applications. For a technical and curious guy like me it's not a chore at all.
Since I don't have the ability to measure pressure, it's velocity, manufacturer and others data, and experience that help find that window of safety.
Still it all comes down to what gives you and the gun an edge in POI.
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
DWF Supporters
April 9, 2015
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Arlen,
I agree reloading is not a chore but more an enjoyable hobby and I honestly find it very relaxing. I enjoy the concentration and the process, especially when I am hand weighing each load using my beam scale.
When I am collecting Chrono data I am focusing on shooting through the chrono at the same spot and making sure I don't blast the thing, so I do not shoot for groups while shooting through the chrono. I guess the best thing to do would be shoot five shots through the chrono then reload and shoot the same load for groups at some paper down range. This way I would kill two birds during the same trip to the range. I do shoot from a bench with bags.
“We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more
humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.”
-Henry David Thoreau
“When some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether
they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes – remembering that it was
one of the best parts of my education – *make* them hunters.”
-Henry David Thoreau
Supporter
Moderators
January 24, 2009
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Interesting data, for sure. I am completely old school. Currently I have been using 180gr Speer TMJ with 18gr IMR4227 & CCI400 primers. No crono, but they feel good in-da-hand.
And go BANG with each squeeze.
Need to try a crono one of these days.
April 25, 2008
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PAbowhunter,
Seat the Hornady 180gr XTP to the lower cannelure and you can increase the powder charge 2-3gr. I have some data you might be interested in.
April 25, 2008
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Charger Fan,
You want real old school? Keep the same powder charge (you can go up a grain if you want) and switch to the Lyman #358627 215gr SWC. A real thumper load for the Max.
DWF Supporters
April 9, 2015
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crossfire said
PAbowhunter,Seat the Hornady 180gr XTP to the lower cannelure and you can increase the powder charge 2-3gr. I have some data you might be interested in.
Please share data either through post or a PM. I am very interested.
“We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more
humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.”
-Henry David Thoreau
“When some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether
they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes – remembering that it was
one of the best parts of my education – *make* them hunters.”
-Henry David Thoreau
April 25, 2008
Offline
.pdf file sent in PM. Enjoy. BTW, loading the XTP at the lower cannelure is the same as lengthening the case from 1.605" to 1.725".
DWF Supporters
April 9, 2015
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Just another trip to the range and ran 6 through the Chronograph with the 8" barrel. Figured I would add this string to this thread.
Created: 03/28/16 12:36 PM
Description: Dan Wesson 357 Super Mag 8"
Notes 1: H110 21.5 gr CCI Mag
Notes 2: Hornady XTP 180 JHP
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.230
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: 0 °F
BP: 0.00 inHg
# FPS FT-LBS PF
6 1563 976.58 281.34
5 1591 1011.88 286.38
4 1567 981.58 282.06
3 1573 989.11 283.14
2 1571 986.60 282.78
1 1563 976.58 281.34
Average: 1571.3 FPS
SD: 10.5 FPS
Min: 1563 FPS
Max: 1591 FPS
Spread: 28 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 1577 FPS
“We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more
humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.”
-Henry David Thoreau
“When some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether
they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes – remembering that it was
one of the best parts of my education – *make* them hunters.”
-Henry David Thoreau
December 19, 2015
Offline
Am I glad you revived your own thread. I have a three comments I would love your thoughts on.
You measured 1526fps on both barrel lengths using the 21.5g and the small pistol magnums. I would have expected the 10" to do a little better than the 8". Was there a temperature difference?
I was also interested to see that the SPM primers were getting more velocity than the SR primers. I use both in my Max loadings.
Third, Wow those are some big loads. You are getting above 1500fps and it seems, trying to reach higher. Brother, would you please be careful. I just blew up my Ruger NM super Blackhawk Maximum soloing out in the Arizona desert. I didn't just crack it, I BLEW it up!
I'm still pretty shaken up by it. Once I calm down, I will finish the story and put pics together.
DWF Supporters
April 9, 2015
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Prescut said
Am I glad you revived your own thread. I have a three comments I would love your thoughts on.You measured 1526fps on both barrel lengths using the 21.5g and the small pistol magnums. I would have expected the 10" to do a little better than the 8". Was there a temperature difference?
I was also interested to see that the SPM primers were getting more velocity than the SR primers. I use both in my Max loadings.
Third, Wow those are some big loads. You are getting above 1500fps and it seems, trying to reach higher. Brother, would you please be careful. I just blew up my Ruger NM super Blackhawk Maximum soloing out in the Arizona desert. I didn't just crack it, I BLEW it up!
I'm still pretty shaken up by it. Once I calm down, I will finish the story and put pics together.
Sorry to hear about your accident. I truly appreciate your advice on being careful. I had been working up in .5 grain increments and I have been checking for pressure signs and so far so good, but I do not feel the need to push it more. No doubt that 21.5 of H110 is my MAX and will not be going over that. I am going to back off .5 grains on the H110 to 21 grains (this is published max on the Hodgdon's Website).
My thoughts on the 10"-8" barrel length difference. I agree with you that I would have expected the 10" to show a slightly faster reading all things being equal- so I am guessing that all things were NOT equal. #1 there was a temp difference. with the 10" it was 86 degrees, with the 8" yesterday it was in the 50s. Not sure if that explains it. #2. in the 10" I was using Jamison Brass as it was all I had at the time, yesterday I was using nickle plated Federal Brass- I am thinking maybe I used a heavier crimp on the Federal Brass this might have allowed pressure to build slightly higer?? Who knows. #3. Maybe a slight difference in the gap between cylinder and forcing cone allowing slightly more gas to escape in the 10" than in the 8". Thanks for the question, you have given me another excuse to spend more time at the range. What are your thoughts on my thoughts??
Thoughts on Primers. The Small Pistol Magnums were CCI #550 the Small Rifle were Federal Small Rifle #205. Next time I would guess that to make a better comparison I would have to use the same maker either CCI or Federal. Maybe CCI Mags are a little hotter than the Federal Small Rifle.
Thanks again for reading the post and giving feedback. Sorry again for the accident you had with the Ruger. I have had only one experience where I had VERY sticky cases and that was with a 44 mag load using too much Unique in a S&W 629. This was certainly a wake up call and I do feel as though I reload and work up loads with caution, but you can never be too careful, and I certainly appreciate when a fellow re-loader reminds me to just be extra careful.
Much obliged and hope you didn't get injured. Looking forward to continued conversations on reloading and comparing notes.
“We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more
humane, while his education has been sadly neglected.”
-Henry David Thoreau
“When some of my friends have asked me anxiously about their boys, whether
they should let them hunt, I have answered, yes – remembering that it was
one of the best parts of my education – *make* them hunters.”
-Henry David Thoreau
December 19, 2015
Offline
Hey PAbowhunter,
I really enjoyed your thread. I have been labeled a "tester" myself on multiple occasions. It is true that I get some real joy from building rounds and then trying to reduce the variables where I can measure differences.
I use a chronograph every trip. I also use the target as the final arbiter. If I can actually measure the velocity, get the sights centered for that load, and get a group size reading; I feel I can decide what powder, how much, what bullet, what primer, what brass, and what crimp works best for each weapon. I also use a subjective measure for recoil. I have a Hanson spreadsheet app on my android for all results. It takes awhile to build the samples and then go thru the various options and combos, but it is my favorite hobby for the moment.
I usually set up a multi bullseye target at 25 yards for setting the sights for that gun for that load for that day (ftg ftl ftd). I also put a small gong at 25 yards for 22s and giggles. I also have several gongs at 100 yards which is my joy and usually my goal after setting the sights. My chrono is at 10 yards.
I should start by saying I have only used IMR 4227 in my Max reloads with both CCI and Federal primers in SPM and SR. I started with 18g and worked to 19.3g using a cast 180g FT gas check. My Ruger 10" did 1310fps with the 18g and the accuracy was 3" at 100yards. My Ruger 10" did 1400fps with the larger 19.3g and the better accuracy was 1 1/2". The recoil stopped me at that point. The accuracy at 100 yards is tough for me to measure because I am the largest variable. My old eyes don't work the same at different times and different light conditions. I will tease you by hinting that my TC Encore with 26" Custom Shop barrel 357 Max measured 2730fps, but there was a problem.
On recoil, my subjective feel is that my Cowboy 44mag at 1250fps is harder hitting than the 357Max at 1400fps. This is a wild azz guess and it really doesn't make sense to me. I am now backing off from shooting all high pressure loads; a little bit because of recoil and a lot because of dangerous explosions. Can you say "gun shy".
You spoke to the variables that might explain the same velocity with two barrel lengths. You know your stuff. I hadn't really thought too much about the brass, but now I can see how that and the crimp might really be a larger issue than I thought with those Max pressures created. I will use all different brass with different crimps for my next lab experiments.
But when you said gap, you really got my attention. We all know we are losing pressure from the B/C gap, so I decided to use my TC Contender with 10" 357 Max barrel to try and test how much. It is a single shot so it has no B/C gap to jump. I believe the difference was around 1350fps up to 1425fps. I will continue to play with these tests and record findings.
On temperature, I have seen velocity differences from letting my Max rounds sit in the sun. I got about 15fps higher when they were warm.
Ok, enuf babbling for awhile.
Prescut
July 3, 2014
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Hello, Not only temperature but humidity and barometric pressure affect combustion. The same as in a liquid mixture such as gasoline thru carburetor, keeping a journal on these variables allows you to set carb jets to optimum. You can use common mechanical weather stations to keep track of this roughly or go digital for under $50. This is one reason for factory under loading of cartridges they don't know if you are using them at top of mountain or sea level, temperature differential or maybe a hurricane is in your area. Less than half a grain can make big difference. Be safe, be professional and stay alive.R
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January 24, 2009
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Prescut said
Third, Wow those are some big loads. You are getting above 1500fps and it seems, trying to reach higher. Brother, would you please be careful. I just blew up my Ruger NM super Blackhawk Maximum soloing out in the Arizona desert. I didn't just crack it, I BLEW it up!I'm still pretty shaken up by it. Once I calm down, I will finish the story and put pics together.
I missed this earlier...wow! Glad you are okay. I had a friend years ago, who had a Colt Anaconda & loved loading hot loads. He ended up blowing up the gun one day, it broke at the top strap, killing the gun & his scope. He was okay though. He didn't do hot loads on any gun after that.
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