Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
414 SuperMag .357 Max 6" - missing barrel shroud
Avatar
Dingo
Saarbrücken, FRG
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 13
Member Since:
October 18, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
October 18, 2011 - 1:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Hi,

I got a "new" 740 SuperMag .357 Rem. Max. with 5" and 8" barrels. I can also get a 6" barrel – without shroud.

Where can I get a shroud for it, or do the .357 Magnum shrouds for the 715 VH fit? Are there thermic problems using a .357 Max barrel in a .357 Mag shroud, if it fits? Or are there diagrams how to make a new shroud? (Did the 6" shroud have cooling slits?)

Yours,
Ralf 

*** Edit ***
The forum corrected me, it is a 740 SuperMag (40 for .357 RM and 7 for stainless). Before, I thought all SuperMags were 414. 

Avatar
SHOOTIST357
Colorado Springs, CO

Supporter

Range Officer
Members


Range Officers
Forum Posts: 4788
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
October 18, 2011 - 2:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Welcome– you have one or the other (414 or 357 max) but not both…  judging by you description I'd guess it is the 357 MAX…  This would be a model 40 if it is blue.

Shrouds are available on gunbroker from time to time. 

***EDIT-- I just looked at your link...  And I know why the 6" shroud is missing...  You particular DW has been modified to fire a different round and the shroud is made differently to accommodate it. 

Don't lose those little o-rings -- you'll need them if the original shroud ever shows up.

SHOOT

Avatar
Dingo
Saarbrücken, FRG
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 13
Member Since:
October 18, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
October 19, 2011 - 12:43 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi,

thanks - so 414 and the .357 Max SuperMag are two different revolvers? Got it just with this description, sorry for the confusion.

The 4mm barrel is 8", too. The 6"-barrel is an item someone tries to sell for >1 year now; as I own a corresponding revolver now which is missing a 6" barrel, I could finally place a bid.

Could someone give me a short message if there are 6" .357 SuperMag shrouds offered?

TNX from the FRG,
Ralf 

Avatar
Charger Fan
Northern Utah

Supporter
Members


Moderators
Forum Posts: 11171
Member Since:
January 24, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
October 19, 2011 - 9:47 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Yes, as Shoot said, the .414 and .357 Maxi are different calibers. I have not seen a 6" .357 SM shroud with slots so far, maybe there were some made, but I haven't seen one yet. You should still be able to have a 6" shroud made at DW.

No, the .357 Mag & .357 SM shrouds/barrels will not interchange. This comparison shot will explain...

Image Enlarger

 

This gun in your link is sure interesting.surprised I am guessing the other cylinder & barrel are designed to shoot...what is that...a 4 x 20mm round? Something similar to the 5.7 x 28mm round, only in 4mm? Interesting.

It looks to me as though a gunsmith cut the ends off the spare .357 Max barrel, threaded them inside & screwed them onto a 4mm barrel. Although, he should have brought the 4mm barrel flush to the front of the cylinder face.

Image Enlarger

Image Enlarger

 

Whoever owned the gun apparently didn't want to tear down the gun each time he wanted to change the cylinder, so he used a die grinder (and a case of beer, judging from the workmanship) to hack off the cylinder stop from the side of the frame.frown This means that each time you eject the spent shells, the cylinder will want to slide off, too.screwy

Image Enlarger

Image Enlarger

 

Overall, it's an interesting idea to achieve a convertible caliber DW. Here is a translation from the auction link above;

Revolver Mag Super Kal. 357 Maximum!
8 "Barrel
with WL barrels
Kal. 357Maximum 5 "barrel
Kal. 4 mm M20 8 "barrel & drum change
Attention!
On the left side of the lower grip piece, material has been removed to allow a faster drum change.
Otherwise, the weapon is located in the
Top condition
Avatar
95XL883
Overland Park, KS
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 840
Member Since:
December 26, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
October 19, 2011 - 2:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

CF,

 

Thanks for observations.  I didn't understand exactly what was modified.  And the translation was most helpful.  Thanks again.

 

Ralf,

 

Your 740 is still a nice gun, even if it has some issues.  I got my 740 at a reduced price because it had an apparent issue, specifically a bobbed hammer.  When I got it and opened it up, it was obvious mine had a lot of issues.  (A lousy trigger job, cut springs, a cylinder that had not been cleaned after a lot of 38 specials and absolutely filthy internals).  I fixed its problems mostly myself (after reading a lot of the info on this site) and then had a good gunsmith go over and fit a new cylinder.  In the long run, I didn't save any money but I really like it and it is worth, to me, every penny I have in it.

 

My point to you is your 740 is a great gun.  Take your time and work through its issues.  I'm sure you will be glad you've got it.  Plus they don't make supermags any more.  Visually it is such a hog's leg, it will get everybody's attention.  laugh  And wait till you shoot it.  range-time  range-time  range-time  (Hint - Double up on the hearing protection.  It is really loud with magnum and supermagnum shells.)  Congrats again on the purchase.  occasion

 

Greg

Avatar
Dingo
Saarbrücken, FRG
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 13
Member Since:
October 18, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
October 20, 2011 - 10:20 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

CF:

Thanks for your thorough examination.

Yup, I think I'll need another shroud. When I was in the SCA 15 years ago, finding someone with an APO  box would not have been a problem. 🙁 Perhaps I can persuade EWK arms to get one for me; that way, I could also order a flash hider.

4mm M20 is a calibre with a power similar to air rifles. It was developed 1920 in Germany by RWS (Dynamit Nobel), has an E_0 of approx. 10 Joules and a v_0 of 200m/sec. AKA 4mm Übungspatrone M.20 or 4mm Practice Cartridge M.20. Before 2008, weapons were free in the F.R.Germany. It has no powder charge, just cap and ball. I think Daisy tried something similar with its Daisy V/L rifle in 1968; however, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms judged it as a firearm in 1969 and it was discontinued. (BATF? WTF? Are they even responsible for non-smoking sober weapon owners???)

I have never seen this ammo before; interesting. However, I hope the gunsmith did not ruin a perfectly good .357 Max barrel for it!

If the drum really comes away ejecting the cartridges, I will have to do something about that; probably install a gate catch-like latch on it? Well, first, let's see how it works. I got good news yesterday: I will have my trapper course the weekend after next, so I hope to be able to get the revolver mid-November.

Turban-seeking missile: Nope, bad idea. Most Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims I know are good people. An asshole-seeking missile, on the other hand...

Problem: I see the first symptoms of DWAS coming along... Well, I'll have to see how my chances are to get a collector's permit, DW arms, technologically interesting because of their barrel-changing and accuracy design and culturally interesting because of the innovations of DWA as compared to major contemporary corporations.

I hope to learn more of the DWA history here. Looking forward to it. 

Avatar
Dingo
Saarbrücken, FRG
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 13
Member Since:
October 18, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
October 20, 2011 - 10:34 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Greg,

thanks for your words. I am very happy to have found a .357 Max SuperMag in Germany and will treasure it! Like I said above, perhaps I can install a gate catch-like device if the drum really tends to fall out – this way, drum changes would stay possible. I am looking forward to get it.

"Lousy trigger" is something my favourite gunsmith attributes to all US revolvers; he quotes product liability issues. If someone shoots himself/others with it, the manufacturer gets sued because of the "light trigger". He sais the first steps on all revolvers he tunes as part of S&W Club 30 is to overwork the trigger. OK, so he'll have a lot of practice when he works on a REAL revolver and overworks my 715… 😉

How does a 740 react to .38 Special and .357 Magnum cartridges? Is it possible to use them? (Reserve Officer with over 10 service years – I clean ALL my weapons, at least drum / chamber / system and barrel after shooting.)

Right now, I am still happy to have a DW SuperMag. I want to use it as a sidearm against the vicious German boar (see right); so it is no problem if it is a little rugged-up, I won't have conciousness problems field-using it, then. I surely will find one day another 40/740 if I get a collector's license.

(OK – I thing it's time to look for DWAS Anonymous Online now…)

BTW, Greg, congrats on your calender picture – it would have been my favourite had I joined earlier.

Yours,
Ralf 

Avatar
Blacktop
OHIO
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3004
Member Since:
February 11, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
October 20, 2011 - 11:03 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Someone tell me if I'm wrong here but If Ralf could find a competent

gunsmith, could he not just grind off what is left of the cylinder stop

so that it was flat and then order a stainless steel one for a model 715

from CZ/DW and have it installed ? ? confused

 

-Blacktop

+DW.jpg

Avatar
95XL883
Overland Park, KS
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 840
Member Since:
December 26, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
October 20, 2011 - 2:04 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi Ralf,

 

The 740 will handle 38 specials and 357 magnums just fine.  The real concern is the carbon buildup in the cylinder.  If it is not cleaned out, there may be problems ejecting the longer supermag cases.  (The specials and regular magnums ejected normally.)  I expect the extent of extraction problems varies from gun to gun.  At first, I used a screw driver to push out the supermag cases, then I learned if I waited five or ten minutes everything cooled enough that the ejector rod got them just fine.  I haven't tried, yet, one cleaning suggestion I read.  It was to use a buffing wheel on a dremel to remove any stubborn carbon.  I'm guessing you will be just fine with regular cleanings.  I haven't shot mine enough yet to really know.  

 

 I read some claims that mixing the ammos also affected long range accuracy but they didn't give specifics.  I suspect that was mostly internet conjecture.  Some of the more knowledgeable members will correct me if I'm wrong.  

 

Hogs huh?  laugh  range-time  laugh  I haven't hunted in many years but I bought mine with hunting in mind.  Given how much my boy and I like ribs, hogs are high on my list.  There aren't many around here, but I understand they are coming.  range-time   range-time   range-time  So how big do hogs get in Europe?  The impression I have on US hogs is most top out about 300 lbs with an occasional monster.  The record here is somewhere around 1,100 lbs.  It was shot by a 11 - 13 year old boy who was hunting with his dad in Alabama.  That must have been a great hunt.

 

By now, you are probably figuring out I ramble a lot.

 

My gunsmith refused to work the trigger on my 740.  He said the parts are sintered metal, meaning the hardness is pretty thin.  Basically he was afraid of pre-mature wear.  Based on what I took out, I'd say he is right.  I did run some 600 grit paper a couple of times over the contacts points.  Just enough to smooth out what little roughness the new parts had.  In double action, it is smooth but very heavy.  (I don't plan on shooting this one double action.)  Single action is fairly light, not 2 1/2 to 3 lb light but still light.  It's fun to shoot.

 

The trigger on my model 22 is wonderful, so smooth in double action that I can't feel the break.  It just goes bang every time.  I've never opened it.  I bought it from a gunsmith who I suspect cleaned it and put in a new set of springs but that is a guess on my part.  I'm not going to open it until it loses that wonderful trigger.

 

I haven't opened my 715 yet but I'm going to in the next couple of weeks.  The prior owner didn't clean it much if at all.  It was stiff the first few pulls but it has loosened up.  It's not the 22 but it is a good trigger.  When I do open it, I'm going to follow Shoot's method.  https://www.danwessonforum.com/forum/reloading/tuning-up-your-15-2-the-average-joe-method/  

Shoot is very knowledgeable on these.  It will be interesting to see how close it gets to my 22. 

 

I better get back to work now.

 

You are going to have a blast with those two.mini-gun  mini-gun  mini-gun

Avatar
lbruce
Georgia
Moderator
Members


DWF Supporters


Dans Club


Moderators
Forum Posts: 3569
Member Since:
November 17, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
October 20, 2011 - 2:34 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

My gunsmith refused to work the trigger on my 740.  He said the parts are sintered metal, meaning the hardness is pretty thin.

I have read somewhere (don't remember where) that the sintered metal parts were only on some of the early guns. I can not speak to the accuracy of that statement. Maybe some of the guys know the whole story.

LB

Wisdom is merely the realization of how little one knows, therefore I am wise.

                                                                                                                             

Avatar
Steve
Member

Dans Club
Forum Posts: 10330
Member Since:
March 2, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
October 20, 2011 - 2:43 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

The best info I ever found on the "sintered" parts is that they phased out with the introduction of the 15-2 series. A fair number of people have done the Tuneup with no adverse result, especially since we're talking about smoothing/polishing, not actually reconfiguring a piece.

I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.

George Carlin

Avatar
Dingo
Saarbrücken, FRG
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 13
Member Since:
October 18, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
October 20, 2011 - 3:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Dear Greg,

95XL883 said:

Hi Ralf,   The 740 will handle 38 specials and 357 magnums just fine.  The real concern is the carbon buildup in the cylinder.  If it is not cleaned out, there may be problems ejecting the longer supermag cases.  (The specials and regular magnums ejected normally.)  I expect the extent of extraction problems varies from gun to gun.

I may be able to give you another suggestion: One of the most common cleaning methods here in Germany handed down from grandfather to grandson (with the father being an anti-gun-nut of generation 1968) is the VFG (FYI, it stands for Vereinigte Filzwerke GmbH – United Felt works Ltd.). They have tailored felt plugs to clean barrels, and another line for the chambers of revolvers.

Apart from their felt line, they have the Superintensiv line consisting of felt laced with brass (copper/tin brass, not sure if brass is not a word for other alloys too in Colonial English). They are expensive (compared to the standard line), but really do the trick.

Look for 66848 Superintensive chamber cleaners .357 / .38 / 9 mm. You will need an adaptor etc. too, but if the "standard felt" cleaners are priced economically in the USA, you might want to try them out for the barrel and regular chamber cleaning, too. They seem to have USA distributors. Personally, I'd try them out before resorting to power tools. – A Raetz bronce brush tailored to the calibre is what I use for prior cleaning of REALLY dirty (or rusted) barrels. (>55 years of ordonnance rifle amateur collecting between my father and me got us some of those, too.)

I read some claims that mixing the ammos also affected long range accuracy but they didn't give specifics.  I suspect that was mostly internet conjecture.  Some of the more knowledgeable members will correct me if I'm wrong.    

 Hm… I think accuracy with .38 and .357 Magnum may be worse because of the different rifling/twist/spin (pick correct term) of .357 Max against the other two (BTW – what IS the correct spin for .357 Max?), and long clearance path (between cartridge mouth and barrel). Then, lead smearing in the barrel may be an issue with solid lead bullets.

To eliminate the second, I'd handload .38 Special and .357 Magnum cartridges into .357 Maximum brass (CAVE!!! use filler between powder and bullet; too much air for too few powder can result in uncontrolled pressure explosions!). That trick is AFAIK used by .357 Magnum shooters regularly AND will eliminate carbon residue in the chamber (as the brass now "fits" correctly). (I'd send the loads to DEVA first for examination. You sure have a laboratory like that in the USA, too.) 

Against lead smearing, I will check the barrel regularly and use Superintensiv cleaners and lead solvent on it if necessary. 

So how big do hogs get in Europe?  The impression I have on US hogs is most top out about 300 lbs with an occasional monster.

Erm… sorry, we don't have Imperial hogs in Germany. 😉
Textbook answer (I checked): The German boar measures between 1.5 and 1.8m (head and body) and achieves a body height of .8 to 1m; sows a little less. Boars weigh 100-200kg, wile sows weigh between 80 and 100kg. (Hm… sounds like Hog Sows are as diet-crazy as West-German women…)

And about every hunter has a story about a combat assault boar along the lines of "Razorback" that suddenly decided upon a sprint course which put the hunter between himself and his eventual goal.

That's why many of the handgun-wielding hunters recommended a .44 Magnum or better as a sidearm and dismissed my HK P7M13 9mm Para as "perfect for roe deer and red deer, but get a .357 Magnum for boars".

Note: In Germany, handgun hunting is prohibited. Handguns are secondary sidearms to kill off a wounded animal or for protection against aforementioned territorial boars.

 By now, you are probably figuring out I ramble a lot.  

By now, you probably figured out I do, too…

My gunsmith refused to work the trigger on my 740.  He said the parts are sintered metal, meaning the hardness is pretty thin.  Basically he was afraid of pre-mature wear.  Based on what I took out, I'd say he is right.  I did run some 600 grit paper a couple of times over the contacts points.  Just enough to smooth out what little roughness the new parts had.

Thanks; that's good advice. Hm… let's hope the 715 has a "tunable" trigger. (Is that the reason DWA didn't establish itself?)

  The trigger on my model 22 is wonderful, so smooth in double action that I can't feel the break.  It just goes bang every time.

jaw-dropping

 I've never opened it.  I bought it from a gunsmith who I suspect cleaned it and put in a new set of springs but that is a guess on my part.  I'm not going to open it until it loses that wonderful trigger.   I haven't opened my 715 yet but I'm going to in the next couple of weeks. 

Hm… perhaps it's a "German Soldier"-trait. I tend not to trust a weapon I did not field strip / open and look inside.

Yours,
Ralf 

Avatar
95XL883
Overland Park, KS
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 840
Member Since:
December 26, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
October 20, 2011 - 5:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Steve CT said:

The best info I ever found on the "sintered" parts is that they phased out with the introduction of the 15-2 series. A fair number of people have done the Tuneup with no adverse result, especially since we're talking about smoothing/polishing, not actually reconfiguring a piece.

LB, Steve, 

Very interesting info.  I wouldn't know a sintered part if somebody hit me in the head with one.  My 740 is a Palmer gun.  I'm guessing the old parts are original.  I've still got them, I've got a dremel and I'm not afraid to use it.  Is there a way I can tell if they are sintered?

Avatar
95XL883
Overland Park, KS
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 840
Member Since:
December 26, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
October 20, 2011 - 6:36 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Dingo said:

I may be able to give you another suggestion: One of the most common cleaning methods here in Germany handed down from grandfather to grandson (with the father being an anti-gun-nut of generation 1968) is the VFG (FYI, it stands for Vereinigte Filzwerke GmbH – United Felt works Ltd.). They have tailored felt plugs to clean barrels, and another line for the chambers of revolvers.

Apart from their felt line, they have the Superintensiv line consisting of felt laced with brass (copper/tin brass, not sure if brass is not a word for other alloys too in Colonial English). They are expensive (compared to the standard line), but really do the trick.

Look for 66848 Superintensive chamber cleaners .357 / .38 / 9 mm. You will need an adaptor etc. too, but if the "standard felt" cleaners are priced economically in the USA, you might want to try them out for the barrel and regular chamber cleaning, too. They seem to have USA distributors. Personally, I'd try them out before resorting to power tools. – A Raetz bronce brush tailored to the calibre is what I use for prior cleaning of REALLY dirty (or rusted) barrels. (>55 years of ordonnance rifle amateur collecting between my father and me got us some of those, too.)

 

That's interesting.  I couldn't find them easily on the Midway USA site but the Brownell's site has them.  I'll look at them more when I'm off work and probably order some.  Looks to be easier than the multiple steps I've been going through.

    

 Hm… I think accuracy with .38 and .357 Magnum may be worse because of the different rifling/twist/spin (pick correct term) of .357 Max against the other two (BTW – what IS the correct spin for .357 Max?), and long clearance path (between cartridge mouth and barrel). Then, lead smearing in the barrel may be an issue with solid lead bullets.

To eliminate the second, I'd handload .38 Special and .357 Magnum cartridges into .357 Maximum brass (CAVE!!! use filler between powder and bullet; too much air for too few powder can result in uncontrolled pressure explosions!). That trick is AFAIK used by .357 Magnum shooters regularly AND will eliminate carbon residue in the chamber (as the brass now "fits" correctly). (I'd send the loads to DEVA first for examination. You sure have a laboratory like that in the USA, too.) 

Against lead smearing, I will check the barrel regularly and use Superintensiv cleaners and lead solvent on it if necessary. 

 

Wow!  I'm impressed.  I don't have a clue if there is a certain twist rate that is better for 38 vs 357 vs 357SM. 

 

That's pretty clever about using SM brass.  I haven't taken up reloading yet but it is rising higher on my priorities list.  (Wife, child, job and house seem to get most of my time.  At least my boy is a shooter.)

 

The bore on my 715 was so leaded that I could barely see the rifling when I first got it.  I don't know if I should have but I took a brash brush (similar to your Raetz) and kept dipping it in solvent and running it through the barrel.  It took about 25 passes but the rifling is sharp.  laugh

 

Erm… sorry, we don't have Imperial hogs in Germany. 😉
Textbook answer (I checked): The German boar measures between 1.5 and 1.8m (head and body) and achieves a body height of .8 to 1m; sows a little less. Boars weigh 100-200kg, wile sows weigh between 80 and 100kg. (Hm… sounds like Hog Sows are as diet-crazy as West-German women…)

And about every hunter has a story about a combat assault boar along the lines of "Razorback" that suddenly decided upon a sprint course which put the hunter between himself and his eventual goal.

That's why many of the handgun-wielding hunters recommended a .44 Magnum or better as a sidearm and dismissed my HK P7M13 9mm Para as "perfect for roe deer and red deer, but get a .357 Magnum for boars".

Note: In Germany, handgun hunting is prohibited. Handguns are secondary sidearms to kill off a wounded animal or for protection against aforementioned territorial boars.

 

(Remember I'm a want-to-be hunter and have only been shooting much in the last couple of years.)  I've been reading that penetration is very important.  Thus, the bullet selection is very important for hunting and especially so on big game.  (Of course, shot placement is critical but if the bullet does not penetrate to the vitals, well, let's just say I'd prefer to avoid emergency double action shooting.  laugh)  I'll find what I was reading tonight but as I recall, lead bullets won't do much on a hog.  They just don't penetrate enough.  Many years ago I had a Browning Hi-Power in 9mm.  I wasn't smart enough to know what ammo I was shooting, just that it was expensive.  I do remember that it was at least a full metal jacket, very shiny.  My friend missed the 2x4 target but hit a steel fence post.  That 9 mm cut the steel fence post in half.  jaw-dropping  With the right bullet and proper placement, I'd expect a 9 mm to perform very well.  When I finally do go hog hunting, I'm planning on carrying my 9, with carefully selected bullets, as a back to my 740.

 

 By now, you are probably figuring out I ramble a lot.  

By now, you probably figured out I do, too…

 

occasion

 

 

Thanks; that's good advice. Hm… let's hope the 715 has a "tunable" trigger. (Is that the reason DWA didn't establish itself?)

 

Shoot reports great results with his Average Joe tune-up.  Shoot is much smarter than I am.  I bet it works very well.

 

Hm… perhaps it's a "German Soldier"-trait. I tend not to trust a weapon I did not field strip / open and look inside.

 

Ah, the meticulous German contrasted to the American beast.  (I'm a beast.  I was given a card at birth that says so.  I remind my wife of it often.  wife)  Actually the 22 is a target gun and so nice that I would probably mess it up by opening it.  But I knew I was going to have to open my 740 before it was even mine.  I fired it first and it wasn't trustworthy.  It wouldn't reliably fire.  And I'm sure my 715 will benefit from a deep cleaning.  

I better get back to work.

 

Avatar
Steve
Member

Dans Club
Forum Posts: 10330
Member Since:
March 2, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
October 20, 2011 - 7:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

95XL883 said:


LB, Steve, 

Very interesting info.  I wouldn't know a sintered part if somebody hit me in the head with one.  My 740 is a Palmer gun.  I'm guessing the old parts are original.  I've still got them, I've got a dremel and I'm not afraid to use it.  Is there a way I can tell if they are sintered?

I'm not in a position to guarantee that any part in a DW is solid bar stock as opposed to sintered. With a Palmer 740 I think it is unlikely to be sintered.

I AM in a position to guarantee that I would never allow a Dremel anywhere near the "fire control" parts of any firearm I own. Low and slow, hand polish, de-burr and and smooth only for me. I've had a Dremel get me in over my head a couple times, it was a little scary.

I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.

George Carlin

Avatar
95XL883
Overland Park, KS
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 840
Member Since:
December 26, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
October 20, 2011 - 10:18 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi Steve,

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm only willing to put the dremel to the old parts. Like you, I wouldn't dream of taking a Dremel to a good part. I'll go cut an old, ruined part in half just to see if it any different inside.

Greg

Avatar
95XL883
Overland Park, KS
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 840
Member Since:
December 26, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
October 21, 2011 - 12:01 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Image Enlarger

 

Sorry, it's a cruddy picture.   The interior of the old trigger doesn't look visually different that would indicate it is a sintered metal part.  I don't know that that proves it either is or isn't sintered metal.  

 

There was one interesting revelation.  After cutting it, I took a stone to it.  The smith warned that the part would most likely have some small air pockets that would show up.  Sure enough, as I stoned it some an air pocket was revealed.  It is just big enough that my fingernail will catch on it.  It is just below and to the left of the hole.  It looks like a small straight black line.  To me, that would seem to confirm that it is indeed a sintered metal part.  But that is just a smith's claim.  He is not a metallurgist or somebody at the DW plant who would know.

Avatar
Dingo
Saarbrücken, FRG
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 13
Member Since:
October 18, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
October 23, 2011 - 2:42 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

95XL883 said:

That's interesting.  I couldn't find them easily on the Midway USA site but the Brownell's site has them.  I'll look at them more when I'm off work and probably order some.  Looks to be easier than the multiple steps I've been going through.       

Talked to a gunsmith Friday as I fear my 740 may have lead smearing galore. He recommended Superintensiv VFG, but also against bad smearing Robla Solo Mil.

He recommended brushing it into barrel/chamber with a plastic brush, leaving it approximately 15 minutes (no more, or it will dry), and brushing it out with either a VFG Superintensiv or a brass brush.

CAVE: Will attack gun blue if left on the outside.

If that does not do the trick, he recommended plugging the barrel at one end, filling it with Robla Solo Mil, and leaving it overnight or a full day. He did do that at times, and it worked fine. ("Nice .44 you have!" – "Yea, yesterday, it was a .357." – No, he told that RSM was not THAT aggressive.)

For day-to-day care and lubrication, I use Ballistol Universal Oil. It is kind of a wonder concoction, alcohol-oil-mix, not poisonous even when the stomach is totally filled (GLÅRGH!!! Lost a bet?!?), disinfecting, good for defrosting car locks, against insect bites, conserving leather, lubricating rubber seals, and many other applications (unfortunately NOT including barfing dogs). Medically controlled and priced higher, the Universal Oil is also marketed as Neo Ballistol Remedy. All in all, Ballistol and Vaseline are about the "Multi-Tool"-equivalent of care products for outdoor, hunting, marksmanship and military purposes.

That's pretty clever about using SM brass.  I haven't taken up reloading yet but it is rising higher on my priorities list.  (Wife, child, job and house seem to get most of my time.  At least my boy is a shooter.)   The bore on my 715 was so leaded that I could barely see the rifling when I first got it.  I don't know if I should have but I took a brash brush (similar to your Raetz) and kept dipping it in solvent and running it through the barrel.  It took about 25 passes but the rifling is sharp.  laugh

Oh, I may see why ".357 Maximum" (.357 Max) did establish itself instead of ".357 Super Magnum" (.357 SM – would sound a tad strange here and give the social scientists (f) multiple orgasms who have established that the "fascination in pump guns is in the masturbation-like reloading movement". No, I am alas not kidding you, it was in serious national periodicals).

Yup, family, job and house are very good reasons to prioritise against shooting.

Here, reloading is the only chance you get for getting .357 Max cartridges. Are they still manufactured in the USA?

 

 (Remember I'm a want-to-be hunter and have only been shooting much in the last couple of years.)  I've been reading that penetration is very important.  Thus, the bullet selection is very important for hunting and especially so on big game.  (Of course, shot placement is critical but if the bullet does not penetrate to the vitals, well, let's just say I'd prefer to avoid emergency double action shooting.  laugh)  I'll find what I was reading tonight but as I recall, lead bullets won't do much on a hog.  They just don't penetrate enough.

I have my permit for about a year now, but before I will shoot at something living I want to perfect my shooting on the range.

I think .38 Special or 9mm Para absolutely suffice (with the right bullet) to kill about any Saarland game – if placed right.

If, however, at dusk or night "Razorback" comes charging, it is exactly emergency double-action point-and-shoot. My weapons dealer told me about a hunter who emptied a .357 Magnum cylinder to no avail, and switched to .500 S&W later. 

I looked for a calibre with high power, but that allowed to get the weapon back in line for a second shot quickly – and, that allowed to be shot with weaker cartridges, too. The DW 740 was just the perfect match, adding the barrel changes to the normal characteristics of the calibre.

Thanks; that's good advice. Hm… let's hope the 715 has a "tunable" trigger. (Is that the reason DWA didn't establish itself?)   Shoot reports great results with his Average Joe tune-up.  Shoot is much smarter than I am.  I bet it works very well.   Hm… perhaps it's a "German Soldier"-trait. I tend not to trust a weapon I did not field strip / open and look inside.  

Ah, the meticulous German contrasted to the American beast.  (I'm a beast.  I was given a card at birth that says so.  I remind my wife of it often.  wife)  

Sorry, I hope I did not offend. I just observed that different armed forces do have different styles. German Federal Defense – at least the Signal units I served in – is rather thorough and tries to understand meticulously what is happening.

I can only speculate why; I think it is because Federal Defense has a proud 55 year tradition of being underfunded and an even more proud 21 year tradition of being so grossly underfunded the Dutch, French and even Austrians are laughing their heads off about it. (You realise that until a few years ago, our main pursuit plane was the F-4 Phantom II, and our main Utility Helicopter is still the UH-1D until the NH-90 gets delivered?) Americans fall backward in wonder how thorough our helicopter maintenance is, for example. Nothing about "German meticulosity" – if we didn't do it that way, we'd run out of machines very quickly, with no replacements for about 15 years.

So I hope you did not find the comment offensive.

BTW, do you have other pictures like the one you entered into the revolver contest?

Yours
Ralf 

Avatar
Charger Fan
Northern Utah

Supporter
Members


Moderators
Forum Posts: 11171
Member Since:
January 24, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
October 24, 2011 - 9:09 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Dingo said:   

Talked to a gunsmith Friday as I fear my 740 may have lead smearing galore. He recommended Superintensiv VFG, but also against bad smearing Robla Solo Mil.

He recommended brushing it into barrel/chamber with a plastic brush, leaving it approximately 15 minutes (no more, or it will dry), and brushing it out with either a VFG Superintensiv or a brass brush.

CAVE: Will attack gun blue if left on the outside.

There's no need to aggressively clean the barrel while it's still mounted on the gun frame. Simply disassemble it with a barrel wrench, then clean the barrel by itself. That's the beauty of the DW barrel design.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York
Most Users Ever Online: 658
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 62
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Steve: 10330
SHOOTIST357: 4788
Dave_Ks: 4300
Ole Dog: 4064
Stinger: 3444
Supermagfan: 3250
zoommb: 3161
IHMSA80x80: 3014
Blacktop: 3004
brucertx: 2311
Newest Members:
MrBigfugh
MichaelHag
JoesphMop
adam ball
mercadosally
Bula dinor 000x dan-wesson-guru.com EA
smoke
Bula dinor 000x dan-wesson-guru.com Px
aliciaclotilde
brianlwelty@gmail.com
Forum Stats:
Groups: 11
Forums: 42
Topics: 16834
Posts: 148267

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 11645
Moderators: 4
Admins: 1
Administrators: Jody
Moderators: lbruce, Charger Fan, rwsem, SCORPIO