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May 17, 2009
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I went to the range today and ran into a problem. I tried to shoot my Norwich .44 mag with 250 gr. KEITH SWC and the cartridges would not fit all the way into the cylinder thus preventing me from closing the cylinder. The COAL is 1.705" which is a tad shorter than the Speer manual calls for ( 1.71") They fit fine in my Monson and Palmer .44 guns. Anybody else run across this? I'm thinking maybe the forcing cone on the Norwich gun's cylinder is deeper than the other two guns?
I'm going to press them in until they fit and see what COAL works for future reference.
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November 17, 2008
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I had a similar problem with my Norwich but it wasn't OAL it was case dia. The Norwich gun has slightly tighter cylinders than my Monson's. Small adjustment on the sizing die and good to go. 
LB
Wisdom is merely the realization of how little one knows, therefore I am wise.
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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How do you adjust the sizing die? Isn't it made to compress the cases back to the correct outside diameter? These shells went in without any effort, just bottomed out too soon, The bullets hit the forcing cone in the cylinder and the case rims didn't touch the surface of the cylinder by about .010" (est.).
Think I'll just press them in a bit and shoot 'em. 
November 14, 2009
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jaggman said:
How do you adjust the sizing die? Isn't it made to compress the cases back to the correct outside diameter? These shells went in without any effort, just bottomed out too soon, The bullets hit the forcing cone in the cylinder and the case rims didn't touch the surface of the cylinder by about .010" (est.).
Think I'll just press them in a bit and shoot 'em.
You are supposed to pound them in with an ice pic!!!
Now to be serious. I believe if you adjust your sizing die a little deeper, it will make the end of the shell smaller. If that doesn't work you can get a die that is called (oh I forget) I believe a small base circle die (I'm guessing, but I know they exists). Try the Redding website. But that doesn't answer your delima with bought ammo. This is probably not the correct answer, but when that happens to me, I push a little harder and figure my gun will resize the shell when it's fired.
Happyness is a Hot DW and a pile of used brass!!! Rich
July 5, 2009
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If I understand your problem correctly, you did not have any problem with the outside diameter of the case (i.e., with the cylinder open, you were able to insert the cartridges all the way into the cylinder until the base of the case contacted the face of the cylinder)? (If not, I agree with LB...the resizing die may not be fully resizing the case thereby requiring an adjustment of the die.) Further,it was not until you attempted to close the cylinder that you noticed the face of the bullet contacted the forcing cone? If this is the case, you should be able to quickly identify whether there is a difference in the OAL of the Norwich vs. Monson cylinders using a caliper. If they're different (i.e., the Norwich is shorter), you have your answer. If they're the same, I would look to see whether you have the same cylinder-to-forcing cone gap set for both revolvers. However, if your AOL is too long by .010, the gap probably is not the answer. If noe of these suggestions help, I'm at a loss.
GG
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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Mox-ct, the ammo is my reload, not store bought. I resize all the way to the rim of the case so I don't have anywhere to go.
GrayGhost – the cartridges go into the chambers with no binding, just hit the forcing cone too soon. I noticed it when I tried to close the cylinder. The base did not contact the face of the cylinder as the bullet is hitting the forcing cone making me think the OAL is too long, but the OAL is 1.705" which is okay according to Speer. As I said, these cartridges fit into my other two .44 Mags, Monson and Palmer, so I believe the distance to the forcing cone on the Norwich gun is less that the other two. I'll just press them in a little.
Thanks for all your input. I was just wondering if anybody else noticed a difference in the three guns, but then you have to have three to compare them, lucky me.
Great ideas though………..
Ed
March 25, 2008
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Just a thought , did you mike the three cylinders for lenght to compair the measurements. Let us know what you find, alot of us don't have the problem of to many guns from different era's. If you don't have a set of calipers ship the gun from Norwich to me and I'll compair it to my Monson and Palmer guns!
and then I'll get your gun right back to you, when I come back in the country
LOL>
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November 17, 2008
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We probably don't have the same problem, mine was I wasn't full length resizing for my Monson guns as it was not required. The Norwich gun made me adjust to size the full length and that solved my problem. Have you checked the length of your brass along with the COAL? If the crimped portion of the brass is reaching the shoulder in your cylinder, that could be a shallow chamber or just long brass. I may be missing the point as it is hard to visualize a problem through text. Good luck and I am sure you will solve the mystery eventually.
LB
Wisdom is merely the realization of how little one knows, therefore I am wise.
Range Officer
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Dans Club
February 9, 2009
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Maybe this will shed some light? In my Norwich 7414 I was able to fire Sierra bullets whether 170 grain or 210 brain all day long without problem. When I loaded Hornady XTP's they would not fit into the cylinder with the exact same brass through the exact same die. I came the the conclusion that the cylinder was toleranced for bullets of a particular length and shape such as the Sierra which was the bullet of test in most all 414 articles I had read. The XTP had a more forward projection from the crimp groove until it started to round off causing the slight bind in the cylinder, I could not really load them in any way to get them to enter the cylinder unless I deep seated them almost past the crimp groove. I spoke with Keith at CZ about it and loaded a dummy round for him and sent the gun back to have the cylinder extended inside to allow for ease of the cartridge to function as it is my primary hunting round from this gun. Now all is well with this gun. With the Keith style bullet you may be facing the same challenge in your Norwich gun.
SMF
A man cannot have too many SuperMags
July 21, 2009
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If OAL is OK, there's something else going on. First guess would be the portion of the SWC forward of the case is too large in diameter for your chamber throats. One quick test would be to smoke the bullets and try seating the loaded cartridge. If the bullets are too large for the cylinder throat you should see some of the smoke removed off the shoulder of the bullet.
I've had this problem with a couple of revolvers, the best solution is to size the bullets to the correct diameter. If this is the case, you'll want to size bullets to the correct diameter--you'll need to slug your cylinder throats to determine that.
Worst case was when I tried to shoot some ammo loaded with .431" bullets in my .44 Dan Wesson--it has cylinder throats that measure out at about .4294-5".
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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I seated the bullets a little deeper and they fit fine. I had to seat them just past the crimp groove. I fact the ones I tried to push in had a slight mark on them from the forcing cone. I miked them and they measure .429" so they are the correct size.
Thanks for all the input guys.............
November 14, 2009
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I am still confused here. The forcing cone is the taper beginning of the lands inside the barrel, right?
Happyness is a Hot DW and a pile of used brass!!! Rich
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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Hmmm. I thought the end of the cylinder chamber on the barrel end, where it is smaller than the other end, was also called a forcing cone. Whatever it's called that's where the bullet was hitting but not anymore.
I may need a guns parts name review..............
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
February 9, 2009
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Forcing cone is the beginning end of the barrel. I am sure Jaggman's issue was bullet shape and size and its relation to the cylinder. The cylinder tapers at the end after the case prior to the end where it enters the forcing cone.
SMF
A man cannot have too many SuperMags
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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THANK YOU PHIL for clearing that up for me. Always learning something.
Range Officers
February 25, 2009
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In a revolver cylinder the common terms are chamber, where the cartridge "brass" is, the leade (lead) is where the chamber tapers down to the throat, in some revolvers there is no laede as a rimless case headspaces off the case mouth on the edge of the throat. Then the throat which is usually bullet diameter, but when using cast bullets it's sometimes advantagous to have the throat slightly bigger then bullet diameter.
The forcing cone is the first part of the barrel that tapes into the rifling to help with bullet illignment.
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