Register
Log In
Home
June 16, 2013
Offline
I was looking to work up some loads that could be used for hunting if needed.
The only heavy cast boolits I could find were 190 gr. There is NOTHING out there about loading these. Plenty for 180 and some for 200.
I'm looking to push them at about 1100 fps. Nothing crazy. I'd also like to stick with the powders I currently have and am familiar with (Besides, its not like I can run out and pick up a can whenever I want
). My current powders are 2400, H110, Lil' Gun, and 4227. I've found the 4227 to not burn completely in my 45 and worry about using it in my Dan with the tight cylinder gap.
If there is no one out there with experience, I'll just start with 2400 and 200 gr load data since this powder seems to be more forgiving than H110 or lil' Gun.
I also posted on Castboolits.gunloads.com but I think I trust this forum a little more (less prone to outliers)
Btw, my barrel is a 1:12 twist so should handle bigger slower bullets well.
Thanks.
I should add this is 357 mag.
Supporter
June 25, 2013
Offline
Interesting.
Got bullet dimensions, OAL?
Available case capacity?
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
Supporter
Moderators
Dans Club
February 22, 2009
Offline
Published data for 187gr. Start 10% below and work up a load which suites your need and gun:
187 grain LFP+GC (lead with gas check)
2400 17.0 gr. 1,452 in revolver 7.5" Hi=1483, Lo=1398, ES=85.4
2400 17.0 gr. 1,702 in Contender 14" Hi=1721, Lo=1683, ES=38.1
5744 17.8 gr. 1,243 in revolver 7.5" Hi=1266, Lo=1206, ES=59.7
5744 17.8 gr. 1,961 in Contender 14"" Hi=2035, Lo=1874, ES=160.4
Lil'Gun 20.5 gr. 1,517 in revolver 7.5" Hi=1546, Lo=1504, ES=42.0
Lil'Gun 20.5 gr. 1,901 in Contender 14"" Hi=1935, Lo=1862, ES=73.5
TrailBoss 7.8 gr. 881 in revolver 7.5" Hi=893.7, Lo=861.1, ES=32.6
TrailBoss 7.8 gr. 1,002 in Contender 14"" Hi=1011, Lo=993.4, ES=18.3
Have fun w/ load development and keep accurate records. Only change one thing at a time and load in .5 gr increments. Anything less is a waste of powder IMO.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
June 16, 2013
Offline
The bullet is .358 with a .752 length.
Crimp groove gives a 1.6 OAL.
Don't know case capacity but I use Winchester brass, and unless I'm loading max loads with H110 or Lil Gun I don't think I will be compressing loads (if that was your concern).
Supporter
June 25, 2013
Offline
I was going to give some advice about reduced loading but part of your inquiry leaves me with this thought...
=======================================
I'd also like to stick with the powders I currently have and am familiar with (Besides, its not like I can run out and pick up a can whenever I want). My current powders are 2400, H110, Lil' Gun, and 4227. I've found the 4227 to not burn completely in my 45 and worry about using it in my Dan with the tight cylinder gap.
=======================================
Them powders are pretty stout for cast bullets. You're easily looking at something like 25% to 20% reduction from what your used to. Like Ron, are you gonna use gas checks?
One of the Vihtavouri's may be a better suited.
Be safe.
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
June 16, 2013
Offline
Thanks for the info. No Gas check.
I've actually found the slower powders to be kinder to lead, at least in my 45, but I don't have a lot of experience looking at bullets afterwards.
I've found a few loads with 2400 but considerably lower than those listed above. I think I'll start with that since reduced loads with H110 is not a good idea.
Supporter
Moderators
Dans Club
February 22, 2009
Offline
Leading is caused by poor fit, not speed, necessarily. I've pushed pb boolits to 1200fps w/o any check and others get to 1500 fps on well fitting boolits.
Do what you feel comfortable doing and have fun.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
June 16, 2013
Offline
So far I've tried a few loads.
Two five shot groups from a rest, 25 yards.
Powder Avg Group size
H110 11.6 gr 1-7/8"
H110 12.5 gr 2"
2400 10.2 gr 1-1/4"
2400 11.1 gr 1-3/4
The 10 gr of 2400 is a mild load but the two groups with that load were smallest of the day.
I don't have a chrony. Anyone have an idea of the velocity I'm likely getting from an 8" barrel. It is a very manageable load and should be fine for smaller game, but may not be moving fast enough for adequate penetration on anything bigger.
Slow moving wad cutters and heavy bullets are both considerably more accurate than factory ammo with 158 gr bullets in this gun. I'm using an EWK barrel with a 1:12 twist. Maybe the faster twist stabilizes slow heavies better?
Btw, at the range yesterday I pulled up next to two guys both shooting Dan Wessons. Three Dans in a row. 
Some nice ones too. Not something you see everyday.
Supporter
Moderators
Dans Club
February 22, 2009
Offline
I can't help on guestimated velocity. A chronograph is the only way to tell what your velocity is, everything is a guess and may be a poor one at that. A chronograph will also help you see the deviation between individual cartridges, to give feedback on consistency.
Look at your cases- what are they telling you? Do you have black streaks down any of them? How are your primers- normal, flat, or proud?
What about "leading"- any signs of it; if so where specifically?- throat/ first part of the barrel/ near the muzzle?
Of course you can skip all that, find a load you like to shoot and stick with it.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
Supporter
June 25, 2013
Offline
Ron says...
"I can't help on guestimated velocity. A chronograph is the only way to tell what your velocity is, everything is a guess and may be a poor one at that. A chronograph will also help you see the deviation between individual cartridges, to give feedback on consistency. Look at your cases- what are they telling you? Do you have black streaks down any of them? How are your primers- normal, flat, or proud? What about "leading"- any signs of it; if so where specifically?- throat/ first part of the barrel/ near the muzzle? Of course you can skip all that, find a load you like to shoot and stick with it. "
I agree Ron, it ain't exactly rocket science. Can't forget the fun factor loading for revolvers.
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
October 1, 2009
Offline
pasted from jdt81's post:
2400 10.2 gr 1-1/4"
2400 11.1 gr 1-3/4
The 10 gr of 2400 is a mild load but the two groups with that load were smallest of the day.
I checked some of my loading manuals & see that you are real close to what the books say.
Also, what I have loaded behind my home casts ( I LOVE 2400 w/cast bullets) , I would not
recommend going beyond 11.8 grains of 2400. your 1100fps with an 8" barrel should be
attainable with about ??11.4?? grains of 2400. only a guess based on my 8" 715 & my
8 3/8" 686.
If 10.2 grains was that accurate, do you need any more power?
As with any reloading, work up your loads carefully.
788
June 16, 2013
Offline
Thanks for the responses.
RWSEM - Cases are clean and did not stick at all. Primers are normal (as would be expected with such a light load).
I have been reloading for years, but exclusively in 45 Colt. I spent a lot of time working up some hot rounds and am familiar with signs of pressure. With my Dan I am more interested in accuracy, but I don't want loads so anemic they couldn't bring down a medium sized critter or perhaps even a deer.
I don't have access to a chronograph (on my wish list) so I was hoping someone had a similar load so I could get an idea if I need to go up bit or stay where I am. Palm of the hand tells me this is a fairly light load. I really like to have only two or three loads per caliber so when I find a good balance between accuaracy and power, I'll stay put.
788 - I think I will go up a little towards 11.5 and see if the groups tighten up again.
Again, thanks for the replies. Loading is almost as much fun as shooting!
Supporter
June 25, 2013
Offline
Based on what I was reading in this thread I went out a bought some 2400.
I like it. Loaded some 357 cartridges with a .358 158gr LRNBB over 11.5 grs with Fed small pistol primers.
Worked well. No over pressure and It seemed the felt recoil was mild and no leading yet the impact on my target was impressive. I'm gonna work up some hotter loads and see how it goes.
Seems to work well with cast lead alloy bullets.
Thanks for bringing the subject up. 2400 will be in my stock from now on. 
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
October 1, 2009
Offline
Maxwell Silver,
I have loaded 158 grain cast bullets to 13+ grains of 2400 with no leading and
great accuracy. A lot of rounds went downrange over the years in the general
direction of bowling pins with decent results at 13.1 grains/2400.
That is below most loading manuals safe maximum loads, but it is plenty hot
for making pins fly off the table quite well.
As always, work up to it slowly, & watch for any pressure signs.
HAPPY LOADING!
788
February 11, 2010
Offline
The data in Ron's post #3 is Maximum loads as in 357 MAXIMUM the caliber,
not 357 magnum. Figured you guys, that are discussing 357 magnum, might want to be aware of that.
-Blacktop
June 16, 2013
Offline
Blacktop,
Makes sense. I wasn't sure I could even get 21 gr of Lil'gun in a 357 mag case!
Glad I didn't try.
Max Silver,
I've always loved 2400 in my 45 Colt, but just started loading 38/357.
I agree, it is a great powder. If I could only have one powder, 2400 might be it.
June 16, 2013
Offline
Return to an old thread.
After a few months of loading and shooting I have settled on 12.4 gr of 2400.
Group sizes really settled down with this load. The Lyman manual gives 12.5 gr max for a 195 gr cast bullet so it should be safe. No sticky cases or flattened primers. Recoil is very manageable compared to my 45 colt.
This is 10 shots at 25 yards from a rest. I'm pretty sure the accuracy of the round has far exceeded my ability to shoot straight so I'm staying put. 
There was one flier but still good enough for a medium critter/invader.
Supporter
June 25, 2013
Offline
Darn good shooting pardner!
Them 190 gr where they coming from?
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
June 16, 2013
Offline
Hunters Supply Hardcast from Midway.
BTW, these are listed as .357 but I measured many of them and they all spec'd at .358
June 16, 2013
Offline
Well, I finally got a chrony.
This load (190 gr cast FP, no GC over 12.4 gr 2400) hit 1120 fps (spread 92, S.D 39) from a 6 inch barrel,
and 1273 fps (spread 19, S.D. 8) from an 8" EWK barrel.
Components are still pretty hard to come by and these bullets are available from several on-line dealers, so if you haven't tried them, they are accurate and a real pleasure to shoot at these velocities.
1 Guest(s)
