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February 21, 2011
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I finally got to try out the Carbide Factory Crimp Die today. I loaded 185 rounds of several different styles of projectiles into both nickel plate & plain brass .357 S&W magnum cases from several manufacturers. Not one of the cases was long enough to warrant trimming & the lengths varied a little so I decided to see what truth (if any) there was to Lee’s claim of length being unimportant.
The press was my trusty old Dillon RL450B with the upgrade & just for giggles I used 2 different full-length sizing dies. An RCBS that has always, to me at least, seemed to over resize cases. I always get a bulge at the section just before the rim, & another where any bullet is seated, regardless of style, composition or brand. The other is a Dillon die, which doesn’t seem as aggressive in diameter reduction.
Projectiles were a mix of 125 Gr & 158 Gr & the type varied between Keith style hard cast lead, plated 125 Gr HP, round nose plated 158 Gr, & 125 Gr XTP jacketed HP types.
The dies were reset for correct loading as each type was tested using the recommendations from the various manufacturers’ instructions.
No problems at all occurred, the crimp was even & worked well despite quite a lot of variation in case length. With a 4-station press I never noticed anything different with the separate bullet seating & crimping dies in place as compared to a single seating & crimping die. With only the seat & crimp dies being used like a single stage press I did notice some slight contact as the die did its work. Basically the very slight resistance simply vanishes into the background of normal operation, completely hidden beneath the sizing & seating tensions when used as a multi- station progressive press.
I think the business of full-length re-resizing is way overstated. I only noticed a couple of times when there seemed to be any contact at all with the base of the case & it seemed very slight when I did have a slightly over diameter case that actually needed diameter reduction. As for swaging bullets down to under diameter I just didn’t see that happening. Every bullet type had the exact same diameter just in front of the case mouth as it had before passing through the die. Checking the internal diameters of the floating sleeve used for crimping & the carbide insert used to resize (yeah, right) the case they were both sufficiently over .357” (0.3575") that there was room for the projectile & the added dimension caused by 2 pieces of case material. I don’t know why others had a problem with .357 resizing projectiles, maybe a manufacturing tolerances problem?
On the subject of the floating insert I did discover something. I have no idea why it floats! It seems completely unnecessary, the top adjustment screw used to control crimp amount is simply a stop. It does nothing until the sleeve is forced up against it as the press ram comes up. The internal shape of the collar seems to be the secret to the claims for tolerance for case length. It basically has a lead in taper, followed by a long (2/10”) almost parallel section & ending with a second tapered diameter reduction to create a deeper roll type crimp if desired. (At least this is true for the .357 S&W magnum dies). Because of this there is a longish section that will not vary the crimp amount as differing length cases are fed into it.
As for Lee’s claim that it’s not possible to crush a case I don’t know how they support that. I didn’t crush a case, but if you run a case up till the floating collar hits the adjustment screw I don’t honestly see how this die is different from any other, unless they somehow figure the separation of seating & crimping somehow factors in to the equation.
I have not yet fired these for accuracy against other cases I've loaded without the use of this die, so I don't yet have any hard data on if the pull variations caused by case length has any real world effect on accuracy. With my shooting ability with a pistol I kind of doubt it will, unless I somehow borrow a machine rest of some kind.
Conclusions?
The Lee “O”-ring system for locking an adjustment seems to work fine. I will still need to get used to trusting it though.
I’m sold. From now on I’ll crimp with this & seat with the separate die as it’s faster to adjust the 2 stations independently than the back & forth method needed with a combination die.
Matthew Quigley on handguns:
“I said I never had much use for one. Never said
I didn't know how to use it.”
February 21, 2011
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Sorry, almost forgot.
For Dillon owners, mostly. The die is so short & stubby when set up that the powder bar of the Dillon powder meter just goes by over the top of it even with quite a lot of backing off of the adjustment.
Matthew Quigley on handguns:
“I said I never had much use for one. Never said
I didn't know how to use it.”
December 24, 2011
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In truth the Lee FCD for pistols can make as many mistakes as it fixes. Especially as was pointed out earlier concerning purposely over-size lead bullets. Here's a photo of a 40 where the FCD ironed some of the bullet lead over the side of the case, which then buckled the case. The case then refused to enter the chamber and jammed (you can see the mark). This in-turn ruined a stage for a young IPSC shooter.
My personal contention is that if the die is fixing some wrong-sized part of the cartridge, then why don't you simply adjust your dies correctly and fix the issue directly? To me the FCD is like fixing a leaking boat by buying extra bilge pumps.
To each his own, but this FCD is no cure-all die.
February 21, 2011
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"To each his own, but this FCD is no cure-all die."
I agree, but it did make life simpler for me by seperating the seating & crimping functions. As that was the purpose of buying it I'm happy.
I do notice a commonality to the likes Vs dislikes in this thread though.Oversized bullets. Maybe that's the real issue?
Matthew Quigley on handguns:
“I said I never had much use for one. Never said
I didn't know how to use it.”
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May 2, 2009
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That 40 case was not belled enough during bullet seating--I've seen enough reloads to know that bullet cut into the case during the seating operation. All the FCD did was press it further into the buckle.
SHOOT
December 24, 2011
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mister callan said
"To each his own, but this FCD is no cure-all die."I agree, but it did make life simpler for me by seperating the seating & crimping functions. As that was the purpose of buying it I'm happy.
Moving the crimp to a separate die station on a progressive is a valid reason. But in the absence of any issues, a standard Lee taper crimp die would would have done the same job, and at a much cheaper cost.
There's so much buzz about the Lee FCD that most people forget that you can buy the standard TC die for $12.
Here's one for the 9mm: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/274765/lee-taper-crimp-die-9mm-luger
December 24, 2011
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SHOOTIST357 said
That 40 case was not belled enough during bullet seating--I've seen enough reloads to know that bullet cut into the case during the seating operation. All the FCD did was press it further into the buckle.SHOOT
That's my point exactly. The FCD does is not a cure-all die. It can make as many problems as it fixes.
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