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October 12, 2012
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I have a model 15 which will not consistently fire in double action. Single action is fine. I replaced the main spring with one from an EWK kit I got from Brownells. Still not firing. How much end shake should I have? With the barrel removed I have a lot of back/forth play. The spring loaded bearing pushes it forward quite a bit which makes me think the firing pin may not extend far enough with the cylinder forward. If I need to adjust it, can I do it with a shim like on a S&W? Where could I get a shim that fits?
What else could it be? How much firing pin protrusion should I get?
Dans Club
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April 20, 2010
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One of the first and easiest things to check, is that the grip screw is not too long or turned in too far. If it is, it can interfere with the compression of the hammer spring. The screw should not turn in more than about 6 full turns into the grip tang.
Check that, and let us know if it improves, if not the guys here will have other suggestions. And welcome to the forum!
-Lonwolf
"The lion and the tiger may be more powerful, but the Wolf does not perform in the circus"
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Grip screw is the first opportunity, very easy to diagnose in one session at the range. Just keep adjusting in 1/4 turn increments until you get reliable function in DA and SA.
The tension on the cylinder aligning ball can be adjusted by loosening the aligning ball screw (part # 21 on the parts diagram) slightly. If you think you are not getting full firing pin travel, pull the firing pin and see if the channel that it slides in is gunked up
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
October 12, 2012
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Alright, the first thing I will do is check the firing pin is clean and can move forward all the way. Then I'll head out to the range and experiment with the grip screw.
February 29, 2012
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I also got light double action strikes on my model 714 .357 Magnum.
I could always set off the cartridge the second time around in single action mode, after manually cocking the hammer, but it really really annoyed me.
I verified that I did not have a grip screw problem simply by firing the gun without the grip screw installed. Once I had ruled that problem out, I went and added a couple of extra washers to the grip screw, and then reinstalled it.
Like the original poster, I was concerned that I possibly did not have enough firing pin protrusion to get a deep enough, solid double action primer strike.
I purchased 2 replacement firing pins from Numrich. Then I removed the factory firing pin, cleaned the firing pin channel, and compared the stock pin with the replacement firing pins - they were very similar.
I wanted to rule out firing pin protrusion depth as my problem, so I turned down the firing pin stop washer portion of a replacement firing pin.
They say a picture is worth 1000 words, so here is a simple diagram of what I did.
I replaced the firing pin spring as well at this point, I figured I might as well rule that out as a problem.
Not having enough firing pin protrusion did not seem to be my problem, as I still occasionally got light strikes in double action with my "new and improved" firing pin installed.
So I tore apart the Dan again, and I performed the excellent average Joe tune up.
https://www.danwessonforum.com/forum/reloading/tuning-up-your-15-2-the-average-joe-method/
I got a small parts and replacement spring kit, and went over the whole gun pretty well cleaning it up, de-gunking all the internals, and replacing springs.
I replaced what I assumed was the original mainspring in my gun, with a Wolf reduced power 7.5lb spring. I also found out during the tear down that the mainspring in my revolver had been cut down. It was MUCH lighter than the replacement 7.5lb reduced power spring that I installed.
I still got a few light strikes in double action with the 7.5lb spring installed, but not as many as before. So I changed it with an 8lb reduced power Wolf spring.
I only had a single light strike in double action out of 50 shots fired using the 8lb spring with Winchester White Box ammo, which had at that point had become my standard base line ammunition for testing. While an improvement, it was still one to many for me as far as I was concerned, unless I intended on using only hand loads with Federal primers in the gun.
I wanted a factory standard weight 10, or 9 lb mainspring to test with, but I had a hard time finding a replacement spring in that weight. Wolf Springs, and the other usual sources only carry reduced power springs for the Dan Wesson revolver. I ended up ordering a factory mainspring from CZ/Dan Wesson. (a 9 lb spring)
The next time I took the Dan apart, I smoothed it up, and polished the internals really well. I polished the insides of the side plates, trigger contact surfaces, and pretty much anything that could possibly rub using Flitz metal polish, very carefully trying not to remove any metal. I put a little Mobile 1 synthetic oil on a Q-tip and sparingly applied it to the now clean and polished moving parts, and then reassembled the gun with the new factory 9 lb spring installed.
I had wanted to do this during my first tear down, but I had been more concerned with firing pin and spring replacement for double action reliability than smoothing things up... Heck I was a little nervous tearing into the gun the first time as well, but by now I had become pretty familiar with how it worked, after taking it apart and reassembling it a couple of times. I would also like to thank whoever mentioned that you can capture the mainspring using the side plate screw. That little tip helped SO much!
I have put a few rounds through the gun with the 9 lb spring installed, it functions fine, and seems even more accurate than before. I still need to do a decent reliability test with the 9lb spring installed in the gun. I plan on running 100 rounds of Winchester White box through the gun, all in double action mode to see if I get 100% reliability now. Other stuff keeps getting in the way, but I will report back how well things work out with the heavier 9 lb (factory) spring installed.
Due to my experiences with light double action strikes, I tend to look at all the posts where folks are having similar problems to see if there was something easy that I hadn't thought of trying. Hopefully some of what I have tried, and written out here will be useful to others who are having the same problems.
- Bullwolf
February 14, 2012
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I have light strikes in DA there centered but about half the size of the single action. I am taking a break from replacing the springs. I recently got a 15-2. Got a set of the wolffs just like the average Joe tune up says to, but I think my problem is the hammer was rubbing/ hitting the frame. There is a little chip in the frame.
I might have to get a shim but I hope that tightening the sideplate screws will center the hammer and get more reliable strikes in DA. Im gonna try and go to the range tomorrow.
October 12, 2012
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Well, today I tried backing out the grip screw. I can't tell that it helped any. Nothing appears to be hanging up the trigger. I did remove the firing pin and it was clean.
Next I'm going to try shimming the hammer spring with a washer to see if that will do anything.
Has anyone ever adjusted the end shake on one of these? It appears that the cylinder bears on the cylinder front, not inside at the end of the crane like a S&W. I guess I should measure the headspace. Any idea what that should be?
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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This is a little out in left field, have you examined the Mainspring Seat (#49) and the Mainspring Guide (#10) for irregularities? There have been some misfire issues from a damaged Mainspring Seat. Also, there are two different length DW Grip Screws, I THINK they are 1-1/4" and 1-1/2", it's possible that there is something unusual happening with your grip screw length in the grip you are using, any kind of Hogue grip can cause problems with grip screw length, some grip screws have a captured washer, some do not. Sometimes an original DW grip gets the grip screw pocket compromised through over tightening or home gunsmithing
Sorry to focus so much on this part of your troubleshooting, but this problem almost always centers around the Grip Screw>Mainspring Seat>Mainspring Guide>Mainspring function function.
Have you tried observing firing pin protrusion in S/A versus D/A? Maybe try holding a chunk of modeling clay in place during D/A and S/A dry firing and compare the depth of the indentation?
Is it possible that the hole that the firing pin protrudes through has "peened" a bit and the firing pin is dragging slightly in D/A? I did have this problem on one DW, to the extent that the firing pin sometimes did not fully retract.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
October 12, 2012
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I just measured the grip screw. 1 1/2" long and it takes 7 full turns to tighten. Grips are Pachmeyer Grippers. I took the grip off and put the grip screw in 7 turns. 1 3/16" remain visible. So it uses about 5/16" (slightly less) screwed in tight. Otherwise the seat and everything look okay to me. A little rusty but okay. At the range I unscrewed it at least 2 turns and saw no difference in light strikes.
I also had a tiny little bur on the frame where the hammer might have hit the left side where Pornstar's picture shows. Smaller than his though. I polished it a little with a stone. I can't tell if it was enough to slow the hammer at all, but it doesn't look like it.
I have already shimmed the spring with a couple of small washers and I don't want to take it apart again right now. I did come up with a test. I put a piece of soft wood against the recoil shield and worked the trigger in both single and double action. Dent in the wood seems the same for both. That tells me that against soft wood I'm getting the same firing pin penetration both ways. So, my concerns about headspace/end shake probably aren't part of my problem. Impact strength is the only thing left. I'll have to try some harder wood to see if that makes a difference.
October 12, 2012
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Took it out today and still no go in double action. Also not that great single action. The dimple in the primer isn't very deep. So, I slipped a piece of plastic between the cylinder and frame and "shimmed" the cylinder to the rear. Left enough clearance for the cylinder to turn. Bang Bang Bang. Works like a champ. Now I just have to figure out how to shim it permanently. Right now the cylinder rides on it's front. On a S&W the cylinder rides on the end of the crane, deep inside the cylinder and that's where the shims go. So I need to either find a shim that will go over the front ridge on the cylinder or down inside like a Smith.
Any ideas? Googling "Dan Wesson end shake" doesn't get me anywhere.
February 14, 2012
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So I noticed that my connector is really long. The hammer face strikes the connector instead of the frame and with the shorter pull of the DA I think its why im getting ftf. It is so high it can get caught under the hammer face when I pull the trigger to lightly.
Notice how in shootist pic below the connector is under the screw hole mine is above it. The bottom half lines up there is only the one hole in the trigger it goes into. Right? It seems like the section above the top of the hand spring is extended compared to everything else I have been looking at.
The square face of the hammer hits the connector not the frame. On my 44 its under the square face. On my new dan that's still at the shop (stupid waiting period) the hammer face hits the frame.
I will hold off on buying another connector until I get my new dan home. I will switch out connectors and see if it is the problem. I think this is why I have the chip because it is right where the impact happens. Now that I think about it when I put in the reduced power spring I was getting FTF in SA .
October 12, 2012
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pornstar, your connector looks longer than mine does. I think we have different problems. I just measured and I have .012" movement of the cylinder back and forth. That seems like a lot to me. If I can find a source for a shim that will fit in the cylinder I could fix that.
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Dans Club
December 4, 2011
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"pornstar, your connector looks longer than mine does"
That phrase just sounds so wrong out of context.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
October 12, 2012
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Whoops, that does look a little strange.
Anyway, I think I have resolved the problem. I make a shim out of a stainless steel washer. I had .012 movement (end shake) which I think is excessive. I did the washer basically the same way you would do a S&W. The end of the crane was no where near riding on the inside of the cylinder so it took almost the entire thickness of the washer to tighten things up.
I took it out today and it fired off every round in double action. Now I just have to remember to take the allen wrench with me so I can adjust the sights and I'll be all set.
February 14, 2012
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Got a used connector off ebay. That was the problem. I had my first enjoyable day at the range with my .357. It was 40mm longer than it should have been.
I had so much fun at the range I was all alone with 2 working 357 dans. I had ewk's 2in and 4in on.
Thank You Guys for all your insight. Without your help I would be paying some gunsmith instead im gonna buy another ewk barrel.
pornstar
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Dans Club
February 22, 2009
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All's well that end's well. The members here are always eager to help... and spend money. Happy to see everything is back in order.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
February 29, 2012
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Bullwolf said
I also got light double action strikes on my model 714 .357 Magnum.
I have put a few rounds through the gun with the 9 lb spring installed, it functions fine, and seems even more accurate than before. I still need to do a decent reliability test with the 9lb spring installed in the gun. I plan on running 100 rounds of Winchester White box through the gun, all in double action mode to see if I get 100% reliability now. Other stuff keeps getting in the way, but I will report back how well things work out with the heavier 9 lb (factory) spring installed.
- Bullwolf
Just a follow up post here. I have had 100% reliability in double action mode now with the 9lb factory CZ/Dan Wesson spring installed in my gun.
Most of my shooting is double action only, so this makes me a very happy camper.
- Bullwolf
March 15, 2015
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Had off-center and light double action strikes with my 15-2. Cleaned up the insides, put a washer on the grip screw, used Federal primers, replaced the cylinder hand, and installed all new factory springs from CZ. Double action light strikes reduced, but not totally eliminated. Finally 100% fixed the double action problem by installing some cylinder shims. The primer strikes are still off-center, but it always ignites.
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Dans Club
December 4, 2011
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Off center strikes usually indicate a timing issue. Sounds like the hammer is dropping before the cylinder has fully rotated into position. This can also cause bullet shaving. You may need to have the hand fitted and/or have the cylinder bolt/spring replaced.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
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