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January 11, 2017
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Ok, I've read through the various posts on light strikes on primers. Grip screws are backed way off and the trigger feels the same weight wise and travel distance (same hammer travel distance as well) with the grips on or off, so it doesn't appear to be the grip screw interfering with the main spring.
Model 15-2 has a EWK kit main spring in it (feels heavier than what it came with, so I am assuming it's the full 9# spring) and I get from 1 to 4 light strikes with S&B and CCI SP primers. Firing pin protrusion looks good as well, nothing hangs up. It fired all on the first cylinder, then had 2 light strikes on the next cylinder and then 4 light strikes on the 3rd cylinder. I do not know if my parents tried it in SA, I believe all shots were in DA. The screw that pushes on the spring/cylinder ball below the firing pin is flush with the frame.
Model 44 has the main spring that I bought it with, definitely lighter than my 744 that has no issues. I have factory power MS from CZ/DW coming in (Ordered them last week, hoping they get here soon!!) to try out. With the current spring, I am getting 1-4 light strikes per cylinder; with a slightly lighter spring, I was getting 6/6 light strikes. The original firing pin was filed on and had many ridges on the sides that got stuck on the inside of the firing pin hole, so I installed a new firing pin that was smoother and didn't hang up on the frame like the old one did and still have light strikes. Again, the little screw/spring/cylinder ball is around flush or just under the frame height. This would push the cylinder farther forward away from the firing pin; should I back it off a bit more? If I back it off, there is a good bit of front/back cylinder movement with both this revolver and the 15-2.
Dad just got a 6" model 744 with a ridiculously light trigger. 6/6 light strikes with it! When we got it, it had powder residue in the cylinders and barrels, so we know it fired at some point.
Ammo used is all reloaded ammo (by me) with Winchester LP primers, Starline brass, 7gr Unique under a 240gr LSWC in 44 magnum and 125 plated flat point over a 4.2gr charge of Bullseye and works in other S&W revolvers. The DW's are our only 44 revolvers to try the ammo in, but both rounds are reloaded on the same press, same priming mechanism as my other ammo is done on without light strikes. As far as I can tell, all of the primers are fully seated in the pocket, so it shouldn't be an issue with the primer being pushed fully in by the first strike. The 15-2 and 44 have been opened, most of the Ave Joe cleaning/polishing done to them, lightly oiled, checked for burrs etc. and reassembled.
Main springs I am hoping will solve the 44 mag issues; I will try swapping/comparing my 744 spring to the 44 and my dads 744 to confirm today or tomorrow. Fingers crossed! The 15-2 is puzzling; it supposedly has a full 9# MS in it, but is still light striking and it seems to get worse with each cylinder, which is odd. Should I order some cylinder shims for these revolvers and see if that helps? If I back off the set screw in the frame that pushed the spring/cylinder ball, there is a good bit of front to back travel, so I am not sure if the cylinder is being pushed too far forward by the ball or if I need to add shims to push the cylinders back closer to the breech face?? I know it's different than S&W, but my S&W 1917 had an issue with light strikes until I shimmed the cylinder to get rid of the endshake and it's been fine since then.
Anything else to check? I will try different (CCI Large Pistol Magnum) primers over the Winchester Primers in the 44 mag and try full power Main Springs, but the 15-2 has full power springs already in it and is still acting up with 2 different primers. How much back and forth cylinder movement is acceptable??
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February 22, 2009
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Without having the gun in hand, I'd say you are on the right path with everything. Cylinder ball screw should be about even with the frame, so you're good there. The 44 MS should correct the light strikes but if not, I'd definitely try a shim or two. You're doing everything I'd do....
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
January 11, 2017
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Good to know! I ordered the Gumsmith pack of Cylinder shims from Triggershims.com for the large and small frame size (we have 2 small and 3 large frame DW's and will probably add more!). I will swap out my 744 MS with one of the other 2 revolvers tonight and may run to the range quick to try it out, but I am hesitant to mess with the 744 that is working! LOL.
The nice thing is that these DW's are easy to work on, but they can be frusturating to try to get working right if something is wrong. The trigger pull on my dads 744 is just ridiculously light in both DA and SA, but shows good firing pin protrusion. Hoping the shims may help because it would be a shame to make the trigger heavier! Mom even likes the DA pull!
February 29, 2012
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Two things worth mentioning.
1. Make sure it's not a primer seating issue. I hate to say this as most re-loaders take it personal, but if you're aren't seating the primers a tad below flush in the pockets...The first hammer strike tends to try to seat the primer instead of setting it off. Be 100% sure that you aren't dealing with tight primer pockets, or oversize primers, and that you are seating the primers completely and to the right depth. You could even try some factory ammunition to rule that out, or as a trouble shooting step try some Federal primers. (if you can find any) I consider using Federal primers to fix a light strike issue as a risky temporary solution in anything but a target revolver though.
2. My model 714 357 Magnum DW (stainless 715 with fixed sights) suffered from light primer strikes when I originally purchased it used. Turns out the original owner decided to cut a few coils off the main (hammer) spring to give it a nice feeling trigger - Sadly it made the revolver completely unreliable in double action mode, but it worked just fine in single action mode. The majority of my shooting is double action only, so this was entirely unacceptable.I purchased a couple of extra replacement firing pins from Numrich, and checked my firing pin protrusion. I also cleaned up the firing pin tunnel, and replaced my firing pin and firing spring at that time.
I purchased an EWK arms small parts assortment, (where I got my firing pin spring from) and an assortment of Wolf reduced power springs as well. Wolf hammer springs only come in 7.5lb and 8lb weights.
https://www.gunsprings.com/DAN%20WESSON/cID3/mID73/dID97#407
I actually had to purchase a 9lb factory weight main spring directly from Dan Wesson/CZ-USA as I couldn't find anyone else that stocked one. I don't recall precisely what the EWK spring weight was that came in my small parts assortment,(I believe it was a Wolf spring) but it was not as strong as the factory replacement spring that Dan Wesson sent me.
Installing the Wolf 7.5 and then the 8lb springs in my revolver reduced the number of light strikes I'd get in double action mode, but even the 8lb spring did not eliminate them entirely. The factory 9lb main spring eliminated ALL of my light strike issues, and despite the higher weight, it also tightened my groups up quite a bit. I know many others use the Wolf reduced power springs, and they work just fine for them. Sadly the Wolf springs were not quite strong enough to solve my light strike issue. Had the factory weight spring not entirely removed my light primer strike issues, I would have started looking at and measuring end shake, and or installing cylinder shims in the revolver.
After fixing the light strike problem, I performed the clean up and polishing listed in the Average Joe tune-up. My trigger pull weight with the factory 9lb spring is technically higher that with the cut spring installed in the revolver, but it's so much smoother and more even now that I hardly notice it. I suspect it's partially because the DW revolver has such a short double action throw, and because I cleaned up, smoothed, polished, and lightly oiled all of the trigger contact surfaces.
Hope that something in there helps you as well.
- Bullwolf
January 11, 2017
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I bought some factory ammo and left it home today during testing :(. I did go thru a stint where I used a different clamp to clamp down my reloading press and the primers were a PITA to seat (press wasn't as rigid with a new clamp, so I went back to the F style clamps), but that was mostly when I was reloading 223.
I got the new full power springs from DW, so I installed those and went to range with some reloads with CCI primers and some with Winchester Primers. My dads 744 was 24/24 all fired, good strikes on all primers, so I was very happy to get his gun up and running! My 44 still has occasional light strikes that vary by cylinder as does my 15-2. In Single Action, they all go bang. If they don't go bang the first time in DA, they will go the next strike, DA or SA. It got to the point that every other round would be a light strike.
My dads 744 spring was around 1/8"-3/16" shorter than the factory DW mainspring. The spring in my 44 was slightly shorter, but the spring material itself seemed a touch thinner. There wasn't much trigger pull change in my 44, but a noticeable change in the 744 when I put the factory springs in.
I do have some front/back cylinder play and have shims on the way, but I got thinking about the cylinder ball/spring in the frame. If I back off the barrel a bit and tighten down that screw and redo the barrel gap, the ball will push the cylinder forward more, correct? I think it may be a issue of cylinder back and forth play where the firing pin is pushing the cylinder forward when it hits the primer, robbing it of some strength? Firing pin protrusion seems to be the same in the guns firing/not firing, so I may try tightening down that cylinder ball detent screw to push the cylinder forward a touch so the firing pine won't be able to push the cylinder forward. The shims would do the same, but would keep the cylinder back towards the firing pin to make sure the strike is deep enough.
I did most of the Ave Joe polishing, except for the bosses/pins in the frame that the pieces rotate on. I put a reduced power trigger return spring in the 15-2.
October 26, 2008
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I would recommend not tightening down the ball/spring it would result in nothing more than potentially making opening and closing the cylinder difficult. It also would likely excacerbate your problem. I would check for endshake if you have excess endshake it would increase your headspace which would cause reliability issues.
There are two types of endshake, cylinder endshake and crane endshake(the smith guys would say yoke). To check which you have assuming you have endshake of some sort:
With your thumb push the crane back firmly and hold it there. Then try to move the cylinder back and forth if it doesn't move or moves very little (my standard is 0 to .003) you have crane endshake. In all my years of working on Dan's I have seen exactly one with enough cylinder endshake to warrant fixing (stretching the collar). That gun was a 357 supermag that had been shot a lot and rebuilt several times, mine btw.
To fix crane endshake replace the crane lock, EWK offers them for 5.95 (small frame -large frames are 15.95 from DW and much less simple to fit).
To fit the small frames: Check the thickness to make sure it is thicker than your original. Then file or sand one side to the thickness required to get it in the frame obviously completely disassembled (thinking mainly of the spring and cylinder bolt not affecting anything). The flat side should be facing the front of the gun for tight lockup with as much surface area as possible. I usually will leave it just tight enough that the crane is slightly stiff moving usually have to tap it in lightly with a small poece of copper, which loosens to an almost perfect no play fit after 50-100 rounds.
As to the washers that many companies offer I don't and won't use them as they are spring steel and would cause more wear than if I just left it flopping loose. I view them at best as a band-aid or a shortcut gunsmiths use to get out of fixing it the right way. That's my .02
January 11, 2017
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I used a .003 shim in each between the cylinder and crane. 15-2 was 100% today for the first time ever. The 44 had a few light strikes; one was a bad primer that no gun would set off and a couple that went bang on the 2nd try. I tried some Hornady ammo (300gr XTP) and some Magtech ammo and those were all fine.
I switched reloading presses this week and worked thru some primer issues, so some of the light strikes today may have been the adjustment phase with the 44.
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