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January 26, 2015
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Title says all.
Hopefully I'm in the right place. Googling for information on this High Standard Sentinel MKIII if Im understanding it correctly either means its a DW clone, or DW made it etc....... Lots of conflicting posts out there on it.
Comparing it to some 15-2 information especially the Average Joe tune up thread here I'm inclined to think you guys can help me out.
A friend of mine inherited this revolver from his dad. Gun hasn't been shot in a very long time, was fired way back when and put away dirty. Dry as a bone. No rust thankfully, just some honest wear where things rub and a few scratches from handling, being dropped a few times etc.....
He was dry firing it immediately after discovering it and said something sounded like it popped internally. He claimed it was staying back when cocking single action but after that wouldn't stay cocked. It appears to function just fine in double action mode.
I love to tinker so I took it on thinking why not. If it was something simple maybe I can get it going again.
I'll post up pics here in a bit but I "suspect" the notch on the trigger and hammer (called a sear I think?) are just worn to the point where they don't engage and hold any longer. Looking at exploded diagrams found online it appears all the parts are there. I didn't find any loose pieces that resmembled something broken off when taking apart. I'm posting pics of all that I've removed. If you see anything missing please let me know. I did a grip screw washer on the diagram. The grip is a Houge replacement, not wood so not sure if that still applies. While on that note I saw where people have said dont screw the grip screw in too much but with no grip screw in place the revolver doesn't stay cocked in single and seems to operate still just fine in double.
Again I go back to thinking its the face of the contact point between the trigger and the hammer.
Any additional ideas or help greatly appreciated. While we've got it all torn down do you all think a fresh set of springs would be a good idea?
Cheers all and thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Jeremy in Texas.
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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I would like to see pics of inside still together. as well. close ups of hammer and sear, springs in place and check the main spring.
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April 20, 2010
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The High Standard Sentinel MK II and MKIII were made by Dan Wesson. The MKIII would be comparable to the Dan Wesson 15-1. I would like to see pics of what you have, but from your description it could use a good cleaning and lube. Here is a link for a tuneup on the model 15-2. Your MKIII should be mechanically similar inside, other than the MKIII has the porkchop shaped barrel shroud. It will not have the little c shaped clip to hold the cylinder crane in the frame since the porkchop holds it in the front.
https://www.danwessonforum.com/forum/reloading/tuning-up-your-15-2-the-average-joe-method/
I suggest just doing the cleaning and lube and see what improves (not too much oil I go sparingly). If it still needs help, you can use springs for a model 15-2 Dan Wesson.
Also, THE MOST common problem of Dan revolvers is a grip screw that is screwed in too far. Which can impede movement of the hammer spring. Check for that.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
"The lion and the tiger may be more powerful, but the Wolf does not perform in the circus"
January 26, 2015
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Wow, thanks for the quick responses already. Sorry but the gun is apart in front of me right now. I'll reassemble then rephotograph if you think it will help but will have to do that tommorow as its already gotten late. The dental pick is there to point where I suspect the interface is worn. Sorry it was hard to get it to photograph very clearly. Based on pictures I've see by googling these two surfaces would be squared to one another and not rounded off.
Again any help greatly appreciated. FYI when the grip was removed with no screw in place it was exhibiting the same symptom, not staying cocked in the single action position. That is what led me to believe it might be a worn surface inside somewhere or a spring that might have just popped loose. As I took it all apart and looked at the picture in that tune up thread all appeared to be in the right spots.
Cheers
Jeremy in Texas
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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Well Jeremy sorry to say these pics are clear but not close enough to see anywear. Clean it good while its down, lube it, sparingly. Putting it back together, be sure that trigger return stays in its place when putting the side plate back on. Test it then.. we would really need some pics, much closer of the lock works. You got a goid start tho. Probably should take the barrel and shroud off for a cleaning and readjust the gap.
Cecil
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
January 26, 2015
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Not the best photo taker sorry but hopefully this helps you guys maybe spot something I'm not. Decided to leave the side plate screw in place to keep the spring loaded plunger in check. That sucker pinched me good once already screwing around with this.
Removed the hand for photo purposes and put the hammer back into what should be the cocked position. From what I can tell the notch in the trigger should hold it in place against the matching notch on the hammer till pressure is applied and releases it correct? However the surface contact there on those two parts appears very worn and slightly rounded off. They should be squared to each other right?
Sorry but its tough to photograph the area that appears rounded off. Stupid flash etc.... I really think this is the root of the cause as to why its not catching and staying cocked back in single action. Maybe trying a new trigger or hammer would be the ticket.
Please though if you spot something else that I'm not by all means I'm all ears.
I'm going to suggest to the owner that a new spring refresh kit isn't probably a bad idea either. Gun is what, 40 something years old now? I've noticed the trigger doesn't always like to return back it forward most position after a DA pull.
Even though its not my firearm and I'll have to eventually hand it back I've had fun working with it so far. I enjoy taking stuff apart and tinkering as I said and this forums been an excellent resource so far. I really do appreciate it. I guess it will ultimately depend on how much if anything he wants to invest into this thing. Im just glad he had the smarts to function check it first before loading any ammo into it and having a possible discharge unexpectedly with it. I'm really hoping he and I can get it back in good working order and get in some quality range time with it. From what I'm researching these things are very good shooters when functioning properly. I'm also afraid I might have to keep my eye out for a Dan Wesson type revolver for my own arsenal now 
Patiently awaiting some of your replies.
Dans Club
December 5, 2008
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Check out the photos of this trigger on ebay. It looks detailed enough to answer your question. It's a model 14, but I think they are the same. Looks to me like you are right about the problem. I'm guessing someone tried to do a trigger job and blew it.
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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Really hard to tell by these pics. Especially the trigger alone. From the lock works pic it seems that the hammer is the worn of edge. Is that so? Or trigger? Can you push the hammer over, when its locked? Is the interrupter/hand spring fitted into the cutout and hole in the interrupter bar? I will try to post some pics of my own gun's works, shortly. And some close ups of the sears.
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"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
January 26, 2015
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Springs appear to me to be in the correct placements. The hand advances the cylinder forward if thats what your asking and the transfer bar moves up to the fire position as well.
On a good note I called the owner and he said he is willing to invest some money so we will definitely order some fresh springs from Wolff. I've also sourced on ebay a seller claiming to have a hammer and trigger from an actual HS MKIII. Looking at the pictures of those online compared to what I have here in front of me is night and day difference. I think he is going to green light me to snag those parts and give it a shot.
I'm about to tear it down again and I'll attempt with some different lighting to capture actual decent images of those two edges so you can see what I mean by rounded off. Almost forgot he mentioned he would prefer wood grips (so glad he brought that up) over the rubber Hogue ones on it currently. I just love good old wood and steel lol.
December 19, 2014
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Is there any allowable movement in the trigger on its post other than rotational (wiggle)? it does look like the trigger notch has been reduced (but maybe it's just from a lot of use wear). I may be wrong, but I don't think DW uses a seer, the functionality of such is incorporated in the trigger and the one piece hammer (with strut). That ebay trigger looks more appropriate, and good price.
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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That is a good deal on hammer and trigger, greatly so if from the same frame, you shouldn't have to do any real fitting. I ask about the hand spring, simply because if it is not in the proper place on the interupt, the hammer will not set full cock. However, you have eyes and hands on the parts. Glad you found the parts. I had a trigger I was willing to send but not the correct hammer. Here are some pics of the sear contacts and each part with good contacts.
Notice the trigger is not very big, tho it is not rounded but at a slightly more angle that the hammer. Hope this helps you.
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
January 26, 2015
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@ middlecalf ............ No extra play on the post that I can tell.
@ese927 ........... I appreciate the offer of a trigger and thanks for your pictures.
Yes I think that it was completely reasonable what the ebay guy is asking. I called my friend and left him a message that I think we should really jump on those two parts. As for the hand spring ours appears different than the pictures I'm seeing for some of the spring kits. I guess its the earlier style? What exactly would I need to be asking/looking for? All the rest of the springs should just be universal right? EWK firearms appears to have a spring set that should work. Theres also there a hand spring marked "porkchop" style although its shaped different than what I have in hand at the moment but if it works might be worth snagging.
Obviously the two ebay auctions are a given.
Here is the rest of my potential parts purchases.
http://www.ewkarms.com/zen8/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67_5&products_id=1
http://www.ewkarms.com/zen8/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=202
http://www.ewkarms.com/zen8/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=19
As for the grip thats all what he decides on. I like zebra wood myself. He might surprise me and say lets go custom but we will probably just wind up with a decent take off from someone. He did say he wouldn't mind spending a little money but couldn't go crazy either with this. It would seem for approx 100 bucks we can get this sucker in good working order again. Sound reasonable? I suppose we could skip the barrel tool but I feel it would be good to have one. I have a feeler gauge set already so we are good to go there. I'd feel more comfortable pulling the barrel and then resetting it to the correct spot for peace of mind. Will make cleaning it out easier anyway and we can get access to the cylinder for removal since the spring set will have those as well in it. Might as well do it right and refresh everything.
Again, most appreciative of your help folks.
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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The porkchop spring is for a model 12. It will not work in this gun. you need a spring probably for a model 14 or 15 but not the -2 models. That spring might be a little harder to find. Not sure about the Wolff or other aftermarket. There are folks on ebay that strip frames and sell parts and I believe there is someone who has been selling a gunsmiths parts in lots for his widow. Doesn't seem to know what he has for sure, but you might watch for those to see if the spring is in a lot or you might even take a pic and send to one of those folks and try to get a hit. Might even find one on forum. Personally, if it isn't bent or rusted badly, it is likely ok. The other small parts kit from EWK should work. I use them often, and have one for my MKII though not in yet, since I took it apart to explore your issue, they will go in on reassembly. Some of the other brothers here may have different thought and you should way them all. Some may have more knowledge of the aforementioned spring makers.
BTW, I noticed the hammer and trigger on ebay had a BIN link, I wouldn't wait long. Also, you will or that is your friend will need a barrel wrench. 
Cecil
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
Dans Club
DWF Supporters
April 20, 2010
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If you get a spring kit for a model 15-2 all the springs should work in your High Standard. I have a HS Sentinel MkII and the internals look the same as my model 15-2s.
"The lion and the tiger may be more powerful, but the Wolf does not perform in the circus"
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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The hand spring and connector are not the same as a 15-2,at least not the same as my 78' 15-2. My MKll has hand spring like early models lonwolf93. Other springs probly are same or very close.
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
Dans Club
DWF Supporters
April 20, 2010
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You could very well be right Ese. I had to take the sideplates off mine to double check, and to me the hand spring in my HS MKII looks just like my 1981 vintage 15-2. My model 15 no dash has a different smaller hand spring. A running change during production perhaps?
Here is a pic of my HS MKII-
A pic of my 15-2-
Early model 15 porkchop
FYI what looks like dirt or rust is just bad lighting and poor pics, all my small frames get the Average Joe cleanup.
To the OP, sorry I am getting off track here, let us know how it goes when you get your Ebay parts, I am optimistic you are following the right path for your Sentinel. Good luck!
"The lion and the tiger may be more powerful, but the Wolf does not perform in the circus"
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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See your 15 porker looks like the w-12 spring. my MKll is a porker but the spring is longer but not as much as my 15-2. see my pics up top, not as good as yours, i may go back and take some more, but my spring looks more like the one in jgwills pics.. in fact I will do that in the morn.. HS vs 78' 15-2. all I have to compare but I do have 3 sizes of hand spring..
Aw heck ya'll know how it is, I couldn't let it set til the morn..
far left is a W-12 hand spring. the middle is from my HS MKll and the right is from 78' 15-2. Not super large in comparison but for sure. and next
the interrupter or disconnect which ever you choose, HS on the left , 15-2 on the right. again you can well see the difference in the spring noc, spring mount pin and the locator pin for the trigger....My 15-2 has quite a bit of wear on locator, guess I should do something about that since I took it out again. Anybody else have something different in the small frames? Please share.
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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trigger returns are almost identical, the short arm on the HS had slightly less turn. I didn't check the hammer springs or the bolt springs, though I don't see them being much different.
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
Member AAGSR Member AGA #83120600233
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
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July 2, 2011
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Nice work there Cecil.
To the paranoid people who check behind shower curtains for murderers:
if you find one...what's your plan?
Dans Club
April 18, 2014
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just trying to help a man in need...
Oath Keeper #021479 NRA #206814004
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"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
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