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March 19, 2016
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I am wondering if an ETG 445 supermag has over sized chambers if there is anything wrong with shooting it? This is my situation. I have an ETG 445 supermag which I have been deer hunting with for years. Because I hunt with it and lucked out when I first worked up a load I do not go thru tons of ammo. I started reloading my once fired brass recently. Gates and Starline brass came with the gun and a 4 die Redding carbide die set. The Gates brass gave me problems. I ended up with brass bulging toward the head on some of the brass. Only the Gates brass, the Starline no problem. I am thinking maybe only one chamber might be large causing only about 15 pieces in the box to have this problem. I also have a 744. I think I might compare the cylinder diameter between the two guns and all the cylinders on the supermag. I have never had any brass split in either gun. Back to my original question, should I worry about shooting the supermag? Do you think I might have one chamber that is larger than the other 5? What is the best way to measure the chambers? The plan is to slip a mic into the rear of the chambers and record what I find. The 445 brings deer down like a charm I would hate to leave it home. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Dans Club
December 4, 2011
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The ETG guns are actually more recent than the 'older' Monson guns. The Gates family was very involved with DW during the Palmer years, so the ETG guns came out during that time, which was chronologically 'younger' than the Monson guns and 'older' than the Norwich era guns. Your ETGS104 would be an early ETG gun, don't know how it compares to the rest of the non ETG Palmer run though.
Boy, I'm glad I cleared that up
. Agree with Steve, get on FB and ask Randy Gates, he is a wealth of knowledge about that period of DW history.
BTW a 7 was never a part of the serial number to denote stainless, the 'S' would be the stainless indicator, like 'B' is for blued guns.
Are you shooting 44mags out of the 445? If so, you could have a carbon ring built up in one or more chambers causing longer 445 cases to stick going in. A cordless drill, a brass brush and some Hoppes, etc should clean it right up, then you can investigate chamber diameters. Ron, rwsem would be the guy to describe how to properly measure the chambers and throats. I think it takes some special tools so you may need a gunsmith to do it if you don't have access to the tools.
As to safety of shooting it, I don' think I'd worry about it unless you are noticing a lot of bullet shaving, spit back or case splitting.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
March 19, 2016
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Bad habit of mine putting the 7 in the model number. You are correct there is an S not a 7.
You are correct it is a Monson. The guy I bought it from over 20 years ago shot a few 44 mags in the gun, I have never shot any. I know the gun is clean. I never have issues punching the brass out. Thank you very much for the advice. I think this forum is great. I own 4 Dan Wesson revolvers and have always felt like I was on an island. I only know one other guy that shoots one. I consider myself lucky to have these revolvers. I purchased them back in the 80's. They are all Monson built. The 15-2 is a pack, and the 22LR has heavy and std barrel assy's. I shoot every thing Ruger, Smiths, Colts, and my Dan's. They are all good guns but the DW's are special.
March 22, 2016
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10mag's,
not sure the cylinder is really the issue, more likely id suspect the brass itself. I don't have any ETG brass, but as I think it may have been a running contract from the original IHMSA stuff, which was kinda soft, and thin, it could be that.
Id wanna measure the brass that balooned using mic's to see the actual diameter.. that will tell you about the chamber a lot, and I suspect the lengthes on the brass were not trimmed, thus when fired, forcing back the over long brass has to go somewhere... I've seen this on some of my other brass that escaped being trimmed down on various calibers. the area just as the brass begins to get thinner ahead of the web on the case it where it really shows up, even tho extraction isn't compromised.
March 19, 2016
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I know the Gates brass is thinner than Starline. The brass did not bulge from shooting, it built up when I sized the brass to reload it. The brass was not long, I compared it to new Starline brass. I read some place about using a tapered sizing die. The dies I have were made for the 445. I think you are correct about the brass being the problem. I should have not sized it. It came out of the gun it would have gone back in. It probably would have been collect able also. About 35 pieces are good. I will probably just use the Starline brass from now on. Thank you
March 22, 2016
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only thing I can add, and I can't say without seeing the die, is the sizing die is not a "full length" sizing die, meaning the base has more lead in, and a larger radius.. Maybe try a standard F/L .44 mag RCBS carbide die, as a comparison.
All I use are RCBS F/L carbides, and never considered a .445 set of dies.
Maybe this should go over to the reloading section, and be addressed there more specifically.
March 19, 2016
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I see where you are going with this. It seems funny that the Starline brass sized without a problem. Also the Redding 445 sizer die does a full length size of the brass. I will double check this but I am almost sure about this. I have a f/l RCBS 44 die I will do as you suggested. You guys are good. One thing I think I will do is measure the diameter of the brass coming out of the gun as suggested earlier. I will shoot a cylinder full and measure them all. I will also shoot a cylinder full of 44 magnums out of my 44 DW and see how the diameter compares to the 445. Thanks again guys
March 22, 2016
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10magnums said
I see where you are going with this. It seems funny that the Starline brass sized without a problem. Also the Redding 445 sizer die does a full length size of the brass. I will double check this but I am almost sure about this. I have a f/l RCBS 44 die I will do as you suggested. You guys are good. One thing I think I will do is measure the diameter of the brass coming out of the gun as suggested earlier. I will shoot a cylinder full and measure them all. I will also shoot a cylinder full of 44 magnums out of my 44 DW and see how the diameter compares to the 445. Thanks again guys
that will tel a lot, and give good insight for some of us, to try to narrow this down... do a control group, Starline, and ETG, and also some other brass... measuring the "ring" of expansion, and the center of where it occurs from the breach face.
then, using the RCBS "full length" ( and I stress they should be noted as such, please) sizing dies, re do, and report the findings... I'd really like to see case length and case web, mid, and loaded mouth diameters of before, and after, firings of all, and wish I had the cases, and ammo in hand, to fire in a manner I could analyze it.
as I noted, I really dont want this to get locked down, so lets just carry this into the reloading section, thanks, and I'm here to assist.
Rich
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Gentlemen, kind of turning into a Reloading topic, some of this good discussion and info might be better presented (and found by reloaders) in a Reloading Discussion?
-done. rwsem-
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
March 22, 2016
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Steve said
Gentlemen, kind of turning into a Reloading topic, some of this good discussion and info might be better presented (and found by reloaders) in a Reloading Discussion?-done. rwsem-
thank you,
I did elude to that in post 6&8 above, and glad you kept that other info, I wanted to share that with him, as it is something someone else my find usable, but its all good.
DWF Supporters
February 1, 2016
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Yes this is all good as I will be loading some .445's for my first time loading.
Get hold of me, MOB and we'll hook up, I may need a dye, but friend has most
other stuff, all good info,guys. 
SIZE DOES MATTER
March 22, 2016
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pete_1 said
Yes this is all good as I will be loading some .445's for my first time loading.Get hold of me, MOB and we'll hook up, I may need a dye, but friend has most
other stuff, all good info,guys.
will do, I might have a spare set of dies sitting, I'll pm ya, and include a list of other stuff, along with some load data, based on currently available stuff... some powders I've sworn by are pretty hard to find, and then only in one pound cans... a pound don't go far when loading these, but you only have 50 to load, for now.....
I'm assuming the starline brass was designed for large magnum pistol primers, anyone with input on that and what "affordable" powders they been using please shoot me a note... I hoarded some components last winter to start trying to catch up on my empties, but man, components have sky rocketed, and my fav powders are all out of stock.
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Dans Club
February 22, 2009
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There's 6 pages of reloading data in the Supporter's section...
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
March 22, 2016
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thanks,
hop
rwsem said
There's 6 pages of reloading data in the Supporter's sectionwhen
when I can support the forum, I will be able to see it, until that. time, I'm jjst a donator.
thanks
DWF Supporters
February 1, 2016
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rwsem said
There's 6 pages of reloading data in the Supporter's section...
I think rwsem means at the beginning of this thread, MOB. Under sm reload specs.from old DW sight.
Correct, Ron ?
Don't have to pay up for that
SIZE DOES MATTER
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Dans Club
February 22, 2009
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That's a start.... much more in site supporters.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
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