Register
Log In
Home
October 5, 2013
Offline
I recently purchased a 414 Supermag Contender carbine barrel on impulse (really wish it was a 7414). I was really excited to get started with this caliber. I have a good supply of bullets to play with from 210 all the way up to 300 gr. I also have some LilGun and 4227, unfortunately no one I talked to had even heard of AA1680.
In the load data that I have been able to find so far calls out large rifle primers.
http://www.ihmsa.org/tom/techarticles/dan_wesson_414_supermag.htm
http://www.singleactions.com/TheSuperMags7.html
The brass I have is clearly sized for large pistol primers. The couple I tried to load had the primers sticking 0.003-0.004" out past the brass. I'm assuming that I need to just buy a tool like this to cut the primer pocket deeper. Is there data out there using large pistol primers?
Second, I picked up a set of Hornady 41 mag dies to use as I had read that they work fine. Unfortunately they kinda don't. I can only thread the seating die in about 1/4 turn before I am into the crimp. It is enough that the die doesn't move to the naked eye, but I'm not convinced it is enough to make accurate ammunition. The expanding die isn't much better, I can only get about 1 turn before I start getting too much case mouth expansion. This must be a Hornady thing. I had no problems using RCBS 357 Mag and 44 Mag dies to load 357 Max and 445 SM. Just wondering if anyone else had the same experience. Thanks
Supporter
Range Officer
Moderators
DWF Supporters
Dans Club
December 4, 2011
Offline
I've not had any problems using large rifle primers on my 414's. Most of my brass is Starline and accepts the LRP OK. I also use 41 mag dies, but I use the Dillon dies for my XL650 press. They separate the seating and crimp dies so never had a problem there. You may want to get a set of their dies if you are having the crimp problem. What press are you using?
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
October 5, 2013
Offline
This is Starline brass. It just makes me nervous to have the primers stick out past the brass. I am using an RCBS Rockchucker. I went ahead and ordered the primer pocket uniformer.
Supporter
Range Officer
Moderators
DWF Supporters
Dans Club
December 4, 2011
Offline
Are you sure you are seating the primers properly? Not being critical, just trying to understand what's going on. The primers should seat flush with the case, if they protrude, cylinder rotation will be difficult or impossible, also run the risk of bump fire, so you want them properly seated. Perhaps a call to Starline would be a good idea, see what they say about this.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
Supporter
Moderators
Dans Club
February 22, 2009
Offline
I don't load 414SM but I do reload...
Depth of Large Rifle primer pocket is .128-.132"
Depth of Large Pistol primer pocket is .118"-.122"
Measure the pocket depth and if in fact they are Large Pistol depth and you are using Large Pistol Primers which are proud, the it's either technique or an issue with other pocket or primer dimensions.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
February 29, 2012
Offline
*Edit rwsem types a bit faster than me - sorry for the double redundancy*
Large pistol primers all use pocket depths of .118-.122", while large rifle primer pockets are .128-132".
In construction rifle primers of both types generally have thicker cups than pistol primers to withstand the higher pressures they're usually exposed to. With some hand guns you could have problems not being able to strike the thicker rifle primer cups hard enough for consistent ignition. (light strikes)
As to the primer compounds, rifle primers have more/hotter primer compound in order to consistently ignite larger charges of slower burning powders. The same goes for the magnum variations of any primer size.
Sounds like the cases you are trying to reload originally used large pistol primers, instead of large rifle.
Depending on your load data, and powder selection you could try substituting a large pistol magnum primer, and working up some hot 41 Magnum level loads. Or alternatively you could attempt to make the primer pocket deeper, or use different brass if you require the use of a large rifle primer.
A 414 Supermag caution:
One note of caution, always be sure to use rifle primers with this cartridge. They're needed to properly ignite the relatively large amounts of powder we're using in this cartridge and as a safety factor because of the increased pressures.
I wouldn't worry if you are loading light (41 Magnum level) loads with shotgun flake powders, or spherical ball powders like IMR4227. I have used both regular large pistol, and large pistol magnum primers in 41 and 44 Magnum and 50 Action Express along with IMR 4227 and experienced no erratic ignition problems.
Large pistol magnum primers more reliably ignite slower powders like H110/W296 more reliably, and give you cleaner burns. Typically the hotter magnum primers, including large rifle and large magnum rifle primers are used with hard to ignite slower burning powders, or when temps that get down near or below freezing.
The Large RIFLE primer has a tougher cup, and is able to withstand more pressure before letting go if you are looking for those maximum high end (Supermag level) loads.
There's a few 414 Supermag loads listed below at the bottom of the LASC page for "Load Testing The Dan Wesson 414 Supermag." It's a good read.
http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotDW414SM.htm
- Bullwolf
October 5, 2013
Offline
Thanks for the replies. I'm not offended that you asked me if I was priming correctly. That's why I stopped. I primed cases with both my hand primer and the rockchucker just to double check. There does seem to be variation in the depth of my primer pockets. I checked about 30 of them and they were between 0.130" (which would be correct) and 0.125" (which were probably the ones giving me issues). I did order the primer pocket uniformer, Hopefully that will cure my problems.
October 5, 2013
Offline
Ok, I think I have solved it. I had two problems. First the primer pocket uniformer did help to clean up the corners of the primer pockets. Not a lot of difference but a little. Second, the Hornady shell holder I have for 41 mag is about 0.018" taller than my RCBS shell holder for 44 mag. I used this shell holder for both my hand priming tool and press priming tool. When I unscrewed the seating stem on the priming tool another turn I got enough length to push the primers in completely. They are flush now, barely.
The brass on the left is the one that I used the pocket uniformer on.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg12/ernmere/Gun%20Stuff/DSC_5841.jpg
Supporter
Moderators
Dans Club
February 22, 2009
Offline
Flush is OK in revolvers but properly seated primers will be .002 to.004" below the case, no more than .005" below. Glad you have things worked out.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
Supporter
Range Officer
Moderators
DWF Supporters
Dans Club
December 4, 2011
Offline
I somewhat thought that you weren't getting enough travel with the seating tool to fully seat the primers. I have had a few cases where the primer just won't go all the way 'home' but not many. My Dillon has a lot of travel on the primer punch so you just 'calibrate' your arm and learn when enough pressure is enough to fully seat.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
February 20, 2015
Offline
Thought I remembered some statement on Starlines web sight about large rifle primers in Supermag brass. It's not in the 414 listing but it is in the 445 listing. They say "Primer pocket must be reamed deeper if you wish to use Large Rifle primers." And they do call out for "Large Pistol Primers" on both so you do have to ream for the LRPs.
1 Guest(s)
