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December 3, 2015
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Before we get to what “I bet you never saw this”is all about, a little background Info comes first.
Over a year ago I started thinking about a 9mm revolver. After investigating what was available I decided that I could build a better mousetrap. A Dan Wesson Pork chop seemed the perfect place to start. A complete cylinder / crane assembly could be changed out easily as well as a dedicated 9mm barrel. I purchased a High Standard Mark 2. However, I decided it was too nice a revolver to make a project out of. So I waited for another possible revolver to come along.
After being away for the winter I have returned home to upstate Newyorkistan and the Czar in my county has deemed that I can go pick up my revolver. It is pictured below.
Next post for what you have never seen before
December 3, 2015
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What I have named the “Orphan” now shows up on GunBroker. It did not get any bids for obvious reasons. It was a High Standard Mark3 frame with DW grips that someone had shaped to their liking, with a DW 14-2 shroud and barrel. Trouble is it did not have an EWK barrel/shroud adapter for the 14-2 set up. Just happened to be the seller that I purchased the HS Sentinel Mark 2 from. So when it did not sell I waited a couple of weeks and sent him a nice e-mail politely pointing out what he had a why it probably did not receive any bids. I also told him I was looking for a project revolver. He sends me back a very nice e-mail thanking me and suggests that I make an offer for the project gun. I did and he accepted the offer. So the orphan is now mine.
OK I know this is long, but now it gets fun.
I found a 3.75 inch DW Porker shroud and planned to use it on the orphan with a barrel I will have Eric at EWK make. Additionally the plan is to purchase a EWK shroud adapter to use with the 14-2 2.5 inch barrel and shroud when I want a shorter barrel. I realize there will be sight issues.
I start disassembling the Mark 3. Barrel and shroud come off easily. But WAIT! Why can't I get the crane and cylinder to slide off? No way it was going to move!
Then I notice why.
See photos. Hint: Third and last photo.
Anyone ever see this? Frame was drilled and tapped for a tapered set screw right where the crane sits in the frame. Then the crane has a groove filed into it to accept the set screw. This allows the crane to pivot open but prevents it from moving out of the frame. I can only guess that this modification was made because a proper shroud was unavailable and it was prior to the availability of EWK adapters.
I figure it really is not a big deal. I can put a flat end allen screw in the frame hole with some loctite and use the appropriate pork chop shroud to hold the crane in place. The groove in the crane should not be an issue.
BUT, there was one more catch. The bolt plunger is missing and they apparently tried to compensate it's absence by putting in a longer spring.
So, now I am on the hunt for a bolt plunger and spring for a porker.
I opened the frame and disassembled for cleaning. I did not do a bunch of polishing. This disassembly and reassembly was an excursion to learn the procedure and just clean it up a little.
So there is my orphan. It will be fun and satisfying to get it up and running smoothly. If anyone see's something I have missed or can offer advise I am all ears.
I know the bolt plunger and spring are different on the 14-2 and 15-2 so I hope I can locate them.
If I cannot perhaps there is a substitute I may use. Again, I am all ears.
These are my first Dan Wesson built revolvers. Guess I picked a good one to learn on.
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February 22, 2009
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SO... I'll venture the reason the crane is modified is so that a PO could remove it for cleaning without having to remove the side plate. The plunger is removed and a longer spring inserted so the plunger doesn't fall off and remain internally. On more than one occasion, I've wished I could remove the cylinder w/o removing the side plate.
This will be a neat project- have fun and keep us posted.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
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January 17, 2015
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rwsem said
SO... I'll venture the reason the crane is modified is so that a PO could remove it for cleaning without having to remove the side plate. The plunger is removed and a longer spring inserted so the plunger doesn't fall off and remain internally. On more than one occasion, I've wished I could remove the cylinder w/o removing the side plate.This will be a neat project- have fun and keep us posted.
I've wanted to remove the cylinder without removing the side plate on more than one occasion as well. 😉 I'm looking forward to seeing the project come to life. There are 9mm revolvers on the market, BTW.
December 3, 2015
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rwsem said
SO... I'll venture the reason the crane is modified is so that a PO could remove it for cleaning without having to remove the side plate. The plunger is removed and a longer spring inserted so the plunger doesn't fall off and remain internally. On more than one occasion, I've wished I could remove the cylinder w/o removing the side plate.This will be a neat project- have fun and keep us posted.
I don't think that is the case. This is a "pork chop" style revolver. Once the shroud is removed the crane and cylinder assembly would normally slide right off. Unless what you are suggesting is the crane and cylinder assembly could be removed without removing the shroud. I suppose that would be doable. An additional issue is the 14-2 shroud used without the EWK adapter has no way of indexing to the frame. The only thing keeping the shroud from turning is the tension from the barrel nut holding friction between the shroud and frame. Also, before disassembling the revolver I noticed that the trigger/ hammer seemed to sort of "skip" or only partially engage once in a while. Not all the time. I think this may have been an issue with the naked end of the spring riding on the bolt. The bolt plunger which is missing is supposed to ride on the bolt surface.
My plan is to hopefully locate a proper bolt plunger and spring, clean up the area on the crane that was grooved out and then use a proper pork chop shroud. If I decide I want a shorter barrel I can use the 14-2 barrel and shroud with an EWK adapter. As I stated earlier I realize that a front sight change will also be in order. I saw one of these adapters on a revolver at Ole Dog's. It is a nice clean set up and does not look weird or out of place at all.
There is another issue as well. The ejector rod does not clear the shroud cut out on the porker shroud. I measured the rod and compared it to my Mark 2 rod. They are identical and measure 2.5 inches.
The cut outs in the shrouds are cut to different lengths. DW porker shroud cut out is 1 3/16" long. Cut out for the HS porker shroud is 1 3/8. That is 3/16 longer than the DW shroud thus allowing clearance fo the ejector rod when the crane is closed. I need to see if a DW ejector rod measure less than 2.5 inches. If so I will have to hunt for one of those as well.
Anyone out there know the length of a DW ejector rod?
December 3, 2015
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Zedbra said
rwsem said
SO... I'll venture the reason the crane is modified is so that a PO could remove it for cleaning without having to remove the side plate. The plunger is removed and a longer spring inserted so the plunger doesn't fall off and remain internally. On more than one occasion, I've wished I could remove the cylinder w/o removing the side plate.This will be a neat project- have fun and keep us posted.
I've wanted to remove the cylinder without removing the side plate on more than one occasion as well. 😉 I'm looking forward to seeing the project come to life. There are 9mm revolvers on the market, BTW.
I am actually a bit excited about getting the orphan running and making it a good home. I have done things like this with cars and trucks my entire life. Even resurrected an airplane once.
Yes I know about the 9mm revolvers available. This whole idea has been in the making for a very long time. Much of that time was researching what is available. I spent a lot of time communicating with S$W, Ruger, Charter Arms and Taurus. What I found out is that for the most part they all take a .357 frame, barrel and cylinder as the starting point for their 9mm revolver. Because the frame starts out as a .357 the cylinder has to be the same length as a .357. Much longer than it needs to be for 9mm. Thus, there is about a 1/2 inch jump to the forcing cone for the projectile to travel. Also the barrels are .357 specification. Not only are they over size for 9mm, but they use a twist rate of 1:16. A much faster twist rate is optimal for 9mm. 1:10 is common for 9mm pistols. S&W uses 1:10 in their 9mm pistols. When I asked why they used 1:10 for a 9mm pistol but used 1:16 (I think it was actually 1:16.5 ) for their revolver I got silence as an answer. Also, 9mm should head space off the case mouth. Some employ the use of a moon clip not only for extraction but as a means to establish head space as well.
As surprising as it may sound, Taurus actually comes closer to making a true 9mm revolver than do the others. They head space off the case mouth. in fact moon clips are not even needed to fire their 9mm revolver. the barrel is 1:9.5 twist rate and as best I can determine the barrel groove to groove diameter is .355". They do still use the .357 frame which requires a longer than required cylinder. I can understand why the manufacturers do this. It is production costs, tooling etc.
There is one 9mm revolver out there that is a ground up 9mm. The Korth Sky Marshall. First thing one notices is how short the cylinder is. Trouble is it does not meet the import point requirements for the US.
December 3, 2015
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Better Photo of the set screw in the frame. Viewing the frame with screw and the grooved crane together it is easier to see what someone did.
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February 22, 2009
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DD- you are correct- I normally skim through lengthy posts and didn't catch the pork reference. Was thinking it was a -2... sorry about the errant reply.
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
December 3, 2015
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rwsem said
DD- you are correct- I normally skim through lengthy posts and didn't catch the pork reference. Was thinking it was a -2... sorry about the errant reply.
No problem at all. I am happy to have your participation. All information and input is valuable and much appreciated.
Remember, I owned both of these revolvers and had not been ablre to even touch them for a couple of months. They sat at my FFL's. In fact I had never even held a DW until I made a visit to OleDog this last winter. And that was so overwhelming that I am not sure anything about them really sunk in. I I saw that set screw in the frame when I viewed photos. I thought it was just another side plate screw. I realized all of the other out of place items and conditions, but the crane thing and that set screw got by me. I am sure my inexperience with DW revolvers was a factor.
Now I am learning at the speed of light.
December 3, 2015
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Just had a thought! Perhaps a new style bolt plunger and spring will work in the Porker. The plunger simply rides on the bolt. I cannot find evidence that the bolt was changed when going from a pork chop style to the newer -2 style revolver. If the channel the plunger rides in is the same diameter I do not see why it would not work. When they changed from the 14, 15 and 14-1, 15-1 it does not appear as though there was internal dimensional changes made. Maybe some minor modification and or spring length adjustments would be needed.
I am having a little difficulty finding a good image of a newer bolt spring. Anyone that can post a photo wiith or without some measurements?
Maybe a link to a good photo or diagram?
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