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January 17, 2010
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I'm new here, this is my first Dan, but I have been shooting and reloading for one for a while.
7445 8". took it to the range right away on single digit degree day and from a bench at 15 yards printed 6 rounds clovering after sight adjustments and me getting used to it a little. load, starline brass, new, fed 155 match primers, h110 @31grains, sierra 220 fpj. (remy large rifle primers would not seat into these brass, i am also using 44 magnum dies) that day i set 'er down hot in the snow to take a pic and got water between barrel and shroud. so i removed the barrel just like i had done the day before the range for a full cleaning and all. (the marine in me) reassembled same way with same supplied .002" guage.
second range trip was showing wider groups, same ammo lot, i believed i was having trouble with the super wide front sight. searched net and on here for a solution/replacement. and wound up machining my blade down 1/3 in width and a touch of evelation too. note, the rear sight screw on my Palmer gun is not centered in groove thereby making rear sight sit tilted. by reducing height of front sight i was able to crank down rear to the point where it sits more level now.
sight mods done and back to range for round 3. still same loads. tighter groups now, so i moved out to the 50 yard line. after aligning sights with good shot group...i started to "burn some powder". then after 30 rounds noticed a major poa shift, adjusted, then another poa shift. but still decent groups. of course right there on the bench i commenced surgery and found gap good and all things to be tight. crown blackening was even and all.
i know she should shoot better...as did on first day. that's what is puzzling. i am not the worlds best shot but i have done alot of shooting, civilian, military sniper, military match rifle/pistol, and civilian matches. the recoil doesnt bother me and the blast i just plain love! so yes after observing the nut on the barrel i observed the "nut" behind it also.
i dont have alot of revolver shooting experience though. maybe i am changing the positioning on rest between reloads? i do make sure to use same grip style though, but did change gloves.
i mechanically evaluated the revolver again once home and found the clyinder to have axial runout of .001" reading it on forcing cone side. so when i put guage in and rotate cylinder it will bind on one hole and one hole only. i also noticed shroud does not line up perfect to frame, hence rear sight is adjusted wayy left. i also noticed the frame's radius on top and some scallops are not even.
do i have a spanish knock off of a Dan or is this the quality of a Pamler gun as i have heard?
i have in the works now bumping up the powder charge in 15 round increments, then another range trip. i have read these supers do best near max loads?
i spoiled it for myself bragging how well it shot the first day out!
sorry such a long read. i tried to give accurate discription to help analysis.
Any ideas guys? 
"experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes before the lesson"
January 17, 2010
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think i just need to shoot more and polish up on form.
"experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes before the lesson"
January 22, 2008
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load, starline brass, new, fed 155 match primers, h110 @31grains, sierra 220 fpj.
Hodgdon is usually a bit conservative on their recommended loads, but you are close to their recommended maximum powder charge for a 220 grain bullet.
…after aligning sights with good shot group…i started to "burn some powder". then after 30 rounds noticed a major poa shift, adjusted, then another poa shift.
Could the barrel be getting too hot? There is a gap between the barrel and shroud, so some of the heat will be insulated from, and not transfer to the shroud. So, there might be more heat there than what you can feel.
My first thought would be to try a heavier bullet. 220 grain might be a little too light for the twist rate of your barrel. Also, try dropping a few grains of powder off your load with the 220 gr bullets and see what happens.
-Wayne
January 17, 2010
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yes heat.....i was actually noticing some mirage between sights. i wasnt doing rapid fire by no means, but then again this cartridge is burning alot of powder.
i am now up to 32.5 grains of h110 and still no pressure signs and am noticing improvements of grouping. (shot again today) POA shift may be attributed to positioning of my offhand elbow, high/low.? anyway, i am starting to blame the gun less.....
i would like to get comfortable enough accuracy from this rig to shoot hogs and yotes out to 150-200 yards. which is why i'm kinda leaning light and fast for the trajectory benifit.
i had called sierra and they say 29-34gr of h110 with thier 220. the other loads in thier manual for the 225 are with a barnes solid bullet. he said the pressures are different for these two bullets besides just bullet weight.
you made a good point though, i had started at 31 (kinda midway like i usually do) and was working my way up.....i will also make some going down towards 29 now. thanks for the tip. i have read that the supers like the max.....but then again every barrel likes a diff pill.
i will also try the 250fpj i guess. that should be heavy enough for the twist?
tnx, will report more on my findings. i was thinking someone would chime in with a common mechanical reason for the poa shift. but since there seems to be no common problem i will blame my shooting ha ha. or the wind??
"experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes before the lesson"
February 2, 2009
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You might also try some cast gas checked bullets in the 250 range. I've got the 357max and my best groups have come with a 200gr LBT LFN style GC bullet and great accuracy out to 200yds. I also load my bullets out, closer to the forcing cone, just be sure to have a good crimp, I've had a few shake out enough to prevent rotation in the past. I now make sure I have a good crimp.
July 5, 2009
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wdelack said:
My first thought would be to try a heavier bullet. 220 grain might be a little too light for the twist rate of your barrel. Also, try dropping a few grains of powder off your load with the 220 gr bullets and see what happens.
Wayne,
Based on the advice that you provided me for my Model 15-2VH15 barrel and some research that I did on the Internet, I came up with the following information. While I have reloaded for many years, I have never considered the critical relationship of the barrel twist rate and the diameter and length of the bullet. Thankfully, for standard applications, the manufacturer usually fabricates barrels with twist rates that will stabilze the longest/heaviest of the recommended bullets for the applicable caliber/cartridge thereby causing, at worst, an overstabilization (rather than an understabilization) of certain bullet lengths/weights which, according to the source below, is not a bad thing unless extremely exacting requirements are necessary for long-range shooting or match competition as cited below.
This information may help 6point8 to troubleshoot his accuracy problems by evaluating the "fit" of the bullet to the barrel twist rate.
Greenhill Formula (Source: Internet)
The Greenhill formula is an empirical equation that does a good job of establishing the barrel twist necessary so that a bullet of a given length will be adequately stabilized.
Greenhill made it easy with the following formula: T=150 x D
R
T = the twist required (number of inches for one revolution)
D = the bullet diameter (in inches)
R = the bullet length to diameter ratio, (length divided by diameter)
Conversely, to find out what length bullet will be stabilized in a given twist, use:
L=150 x D x D (that is, 150 x D squared divided by T)
T
L = bullet length
The number 150 is a constant used by Greenhill and works well at velocities in the vicinity of 1500 fps or greater. At about 2800 fps the constant can be changed to 180 with good results.
(Note that it is bullet LENGTH, not weight that is important even though bullet length and weight are interrelated.)
There is no "ideal" bullet for any given barrel caliber and twist. Fortunately, many bullet type/velocities will work. Greenhill merely simplifies the starting point and gets one into the ball park. Once in the ballpark there are other factors affecting accuracy that become much more influential than small changes in bullet characteristics and velocities. Except for the extremely exacting requirements of bench rest shooters, and very long range shooters, an "over-stabilized" bullet (rifling twist faster than the minimum required for good stabilization) will shoot as well as a theoretically critically stabilized one.
GG
January 17, 2010
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wow tnx guys. i will be picking up some bullets at the show this weekend......i wont be going out of my way to get cast though, if i find a great deal i will. but i am preferring jacketed for my bear/hog round. but cast usually are a great deal, as i use them in my 45lc for myslef and father and father in law also.
tnx grayghost after i sleep off sme of this alcohol i'll try doing the math for the bullet i am using or need to get. the smallest grouping i need is to shoot minute of 'yote @ 200. really i dont care where i hit them....cause i'll just plug at them with the other five. hogs will be inside of 100 and bear should be also. tnx
have been leaning towards the 250 range. we shall see how some of these 220's work at the diff loadings i have made.
an overstabilized bullet will carry it's nose high on the downsloppe of the trajectory...is what i have learned from long range rifle stuff. don't know how much it applies to revolvers or even my case of minute of 'yote requirements.
i wanna see less than a 2 inch grouping at 50 yards. i had better get practicing. 
thanks again guys, i am happy to learn i can correct this problem by load tweaking, and the pistol is not messed up.
"experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes before the lesson"
January 17, 2010
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tnx rod,
i have been using jacketed bullets thus far with cannelures, so i am limited to crimping there. but i am gonna try tightening up the cylinder gap some though. won't be aproblem for i am a cleaning freak.
tnx
"experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes before the lesson"
January 17, 2010
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i gots 1 in 42"! nice, isn't the twist of a supemag 1 in 18.75"? i was so unsure of my math i downloaded greenhill calculator and confirmed answer. well according to this the bullet is way understabilized? bullet dia=.429 overall length =.653 or should i use the bearing length? either way the answers just get worse.
i think i will just get more diff bullets and powders and just load and shoot till i find the right one. i have never experienced such an ammo dependacy like this. i usually load whatever said gun favors....but this one just doesn't work with some loads.
i wont mind shooting and loading alot. to the range all next week, after the show. i may even try a couple cast bullets.
sorry guys i was drunk posting last night. but it is comforting to learn that the gun doesnt suffer from some mechanical thing known to a palmer gun. maybe this is why last person sold it with only a couple rounds through it?
"experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes before the lesson"
January 17, 2010
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Well seems i may have been premature in assuming something was wrong with gun. I have alot of shooting experience but not so much with wringing accuracy out of a revolver. i guess grip method is kinda like shooting my bow, a little off on grip translates to impact very well. guess cause of the bore line being so far from hand?
good group today with my incremental loading. 33 grains of h110 and federal 155 with 220 sierra. i also shot some of the earlier batch and also some 180 gr xtp and all were printing similar. I am pleased!
before today's trip i had also snugged up the cylinder gap, its below .002" so with a runout of .001" of front face of cylinder, i made it kiss on the tightest one. so i guess my gap is now from .00?-.001"
i may attribute the accuracy improvement and being less finicky of ammo due to cylinder gap reduction....and my "snapping-in" for three nights before shooting again.
18 rounds in at 25yards. some groups were better, but this is a good average.
i was plinking sod clumps in backstop at about 120-130 yards with satisfaction!
wow a pound of powder sure goes fast with these supers!
i'll post a yote pic....as soon as i shoot one with it. going out on 3 day hunt this weekend.
tnx again all for your help and suggestions. i'm learning all the time. someday i may even be smart.
tnx.
"experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes before the lesson"
Dans Club
May 17, 2009
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Good shooting 6point8! At least you get to do some. Just no time to spare right now.
January 17, 2010
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i just got back in sept from my fifth deployment, got a little banged up this time. so i'm taking some time off. all i have is time/and money......dangerous! no no i gots a good wife that keeps me inline with the money, and my time is being consumed with projects of the new house we just got.
but i am gratefull to get to the range as much as i do. and hunting also, i walk right from house. i am enjoying it whilst i can.
glad i got this shootin iron all straightened out.
"experience is the hardest teacher, the test comes before the lesson"
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November 17, 2008
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Good job on the shooting and good luck with the hunting. 
LB
Wisdom is merely the realization of how little one knows, therefore I am wise.
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