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October 27, 2009
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I read in an article that someone converted a Dan wesson from da/sa to sing action only. I was wondering if anyone knows if this is true and if so how to do it. I know dw made a single action only 22 and i cannot imaging the inner workings are much different The reason that I am asking is because here in ca we cannot buy from put of state da revolvers but we can buy from out of state sa revolvers and if a seller would be willing to do this conversion before shipping I would be able to buy them and have them shipped in legally because dw revolvers are as rare as hens teeth here.
Thanks for your help.
Jordan
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
March 27, 2009
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I am sure it could be done just dont know what it is that is different. I have a SA Dan when I deep clean it I will shoot lots of pics and compare to da one.
Go east young man! Never been out your way and may never as could not cc!
October 15, 2010
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You could remove the double action sear from the hammer. I don't know if the modifications must be permanent, if not this is a quick fix.
Supporter
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Range Officers
May 2, 2009
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On a DW, you simply remove the bottom of the hammer where it engages the trigger (sear area). This is definitely a permanent fix.
I believe the CA law is for firearms that were ORIGINALLY mfg as a single action. Not sure the converted to would be CA legal.
SHOOT
October 27, 2009
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The change does not have to be permanent. Many other guns (mostly autos) are being converted and imported into the state in a simalure way and then converted back to regular function completely legally. If someone has a picture of what needs to be removed it would help me a bunch as I will need to test it on mine first then hopefully make a cheat sheet to help convince people to help me out. Most of the prices stuff gets listed for on here I would gladly pay. It might seem a little high to everyone else but it is a good price compared to what they are selling for ppt in California, an example is someone is trying to sell a 15-2 with 2 barrels for $750 and the revolver is in 95% shape.
I will get out of this state sooner or latter but a secure well paying job is keeping me here and those are hard to find in every state.
Supporter
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Range Officers
May 2, 2009
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I have one on the bench I am converting right now–if you can wait, I can send pics of mine. That way you will not have to destroy yours. There is no going back once you convert it to SA--you have to remove the double action notch on the hammer. The only fix is to buy a new hammer.
SHOOT
October 27, 2009
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I would be interested in pictures.
Thanks
Jordan
October 15, 2010
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Just took my 15-2 apart, checking the action to refresh my memory. If I remove the DA-sear (the spring loaded thingie that slides out from the hammer to the side) the hammer won't move when I pull the trigger, quick sing action only fix.
Here's a pic of my spare hammer:
SHOOT: if you remove the bottom part of the hammer wont that remove the single action function of the revolver, thus converting it to double action only?
Supporter
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Range Officers
May 2, 2009
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Sorry, my brain must have been running in reverse...
I'm converting to DA only (removing bottom of hammer).
SHOOT
October 27, 2009
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Thank both of you for your help. This is what I was looking for. Now just need to find someone willing to do it when selling one on here.
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Range Officers
May 2, 2009
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shooting4life said:
Thank both of you for your help. This is what I was looking for. Now just need to find someone willing to do it when selling one on here.
What are you looking for ? Whole gun, frame only ? I'll do it to one of my spares and sell it to you, but we'll have to verify the CA laws.
I quit shipping ot CA years ago because it was a pain.
SHOOT
October 27, 2009
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Any supermag besides maximum, 22lr, maybe something in stainless. I'm pretty open minded. Here is a Link from calguns explaining the law and the single action exemption.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=177904
This was posted by bwise on calguns.net. He is one of the founding members of the calguns foundation and is an attorney that is working to over turn ca gum laws.
Firstly, I believe I am the first importer-into-CA of a S&W single-action revolver, the S&W Model 14-3 using the 12133PC single-action exemption. [As contrasted other exemptions to Roster: LEO status, inheritance/probate, PPT, someone moving in with one, etc.] This Model 14-3 was born as a *factory* single-action revolver, with the box labelled as such. (It's a thing of beauty and a wonderful action, I need to post a pic.)
I posted this awhile back (June-ish of 2008) and was hoping DOJ would try to mess with me on this.
Removing the DA sear from a standard S&W revolver renders it into SA status: after this act, it takes two separate operations to cock, then fire the gun. The DA sear (appears to be S&W term) is also called the 'self-cocking strut': removal of this item disallows the core essence of double-action status, self-cocking. It appears this (nor any other manners of SA conversions) are possible on Colt or Ruger DA wheelgun designs.
Note that terms 'double action' and 'single action' are not legally defined, so industry practice & expert opinion are what would apply: single-action requires separate human manipulation of the hammer (cocking) & trigger (firing). Here we have a factory exemplar, the Model 14-3 that was termed as a single-action by the factory as our exemplar. And the brother Model 14 double action is essentially a K38 Masterpiece, whose action/design carries thru to of all S&W wheelguns even today. The sear removal mod to a S&W wheelgun would thus be equivalent to rendering it a la a Model 14-3. The fact that a Model 14-3 SA exists, and the fact the part is intentionally removed to approximate Model 14-3 SA status, indicates this is not a defective revolver.
[There are some slight hammer differences between the 14-3 SA and a sear-removed gun for matters of smoothness.]
That's the technical. Now, for the legal mumbo jumbo:
there are generally no laws against modifying your own handguns, except for no-nos like
unrifled barrels or chambering shotgun shells or being an AW or 'unconventional pistol';
you are free to modify a handgun's bbl length, caliber, change rimfire to/from centerfire,
change single-action to/from double-action, change multi-shot to/from single-shot, etc.
no requirements for permanence of gun's status, or that operating charateristics must be
retained: change characteristics as above at will, as often as desired.
there's no concept of "original design intent" expressed within, or inferrable from, the law;
assertion by DOJ of "original design intent" & related drama is underground regulation
unsupported by law.
the relevant status of the gun is not what the gun looks like but how it operates, at the
time of importation/DROS. What it was, or what it could/will be, is irrelevant.
Rostering status vs. 12133PC exemption to Roster applies only for the gun's sale/transfer, from
the microsecond before DROS until the 10 day wait completion and pickup. The moment it's in
the owner's hot little hands he's free to modify it to any other legal configuration (i.e., a non-AW,
non-'unconventional pistol', etc.)
Roster-exempt single-actions must hold min 5 rounds, have min. 3" bbl length and min 7.5" overall
length measured parallel to bore. [Thus, snubbys like Model 60s would not be able to exploit the
single-action exemption.]
Handguns imported into CA via single-action/ single-shot exemption should have any appropriate
change to their status rendered outside of CA before it crosses into CA, due to the murkiness of
prefatory text in 12125PC.
The smith removing the DA sear ("self-cocking strut") should, after reassembly of the gun, ensure
that the gun truly cannot cock with a trigger pull and that the gun functions OK in single action
mode (cock, fire, cock, fire, cock, fire…. for full cylinder rotation). The gun must *work* and
not be considered jammed/broken!!
Once a purchaser of a single-action revolver takes his gun home, he is free convert it to any other
legal type of firearm of which he can conceive.
The existence of the revolver in DA state is not proof that the gun entered CA illegally since
it could obviously have been modified outside CA, and then further modified again by owner
afterward.
If legal quibbling ensued, the burden of proof is on the prosecution to show that the gun was
NOT converted to single-action and not single-action at time of DROS.
The similar single-shot exemption (6" min bbl length, 10.5" min overall length) is currently being
used by Calgunners – in cooperation with excellent out-of-state intermediary FFLs like
Freakshow Mfg, Inc. – to import Roster-exempt single-shot pistols built on off-list AR receivers.
This has already received some DOJ drama that rapidly went away, especially when DOJ agent
"Replacement Iggy" Brent Forgot-His-Name found out that one Calgunner builder of AK pistols
was a gun-savvy lawyer and just gave up (he had been making noises about illegal SBRs).
I will add that someone doing the work outside CA should be damned good at not mucking up a nice gun and have nice screwdrivers. S&W sideplate edges are easy to damage, too.
BTW, I was going to do this to acquire one of the new 8-shot 627s (i.e with traditional barrel not the 'wedge spacegun barrel' but alas, S&W actually Rostered the 627-8 with 4" bbl.
BTW#2: (to Moulton): the 'certain' in 'certain single-action revolvers' just means ones that are 5+ round and which are dimensionally compliant w/min 3+" bbl length & min 7.5" overall length.
Here is more information regarding the calguns foundation.
July 11, 2010
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Just shy of 2 months before I can purchase my own handgun in California, set on a Dan Wesson 15-2 .357 mag.
Like shooting4life I also need to find someone who would be willing to convert the gun to a SA state prior to shipment. If anyone knows someone or is willing to, let me know. 
[Image Can Not Be Found]
Would the above hammer not work in a Model 15-2? Looks a little different from the above hammer. Listed for a model 15
July 11, 2010
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Ok, just for clarification to convert the gun to single action, do you only need to remove the spring from #1, do you have to remove #2, or both?
Edit: Picture was stolen from another member / post. 😛
Supporter
Range Officer
Range Officers
May 2, 2009
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You just completely remove #2 to convert one to SA only.
I hate dealing with CA sales and haven't sold any to that state in years.
SHOOT
July 11, 2010
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Ok cool, so I just need to have someone take the revolver to a 07 FFL to remove that part, then have them ship it to me.
Hopefully that won't be too difficult to get someone to do if everything is payed for.
I don't like dealing with CA laws either. 😡
July 11, 2010
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Jubba said:
Ok, just for clarification to convert the gun to single action, do you only need to remove the spring from #1, do you have to remove #2, or both?
Edit: Picture was stolen from another member / post. 😛
One last question (Hopefully). If a gun shop in California is already in possession of the Dan Wesson 15-2 and it's not legal for them to sell it in a double action state, would they be able to remove #2 themselves making it a single action only if they're not a licensed 07 FFL?
Or would they have to have the gun shipped to an 07 FFL to remove that one piece, ship it back, then be able to sell it legally from the shop in California to a Californian resident? 😡
Supporter
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Range Officers
May 2, 2009
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If it is already in CA, I believe it is legal. It is only illegal to import a DA DW into CA.
SHOOT
July 11, 2010
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If it belongs to a FFL, it's illegal for sale because they treat it as a new sale / new firearm or whatever the legal crap is here. Private Party Transfers are completely legal though which is retarded imo to allow ppt but not sales through shops. 😡
I'm just not sure if I could legally convince a shop to convert the gun to single action then sell it to me and if so what they'd have to do (Doing it themselves or having to ship it to an 07 to 'Modify').
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