Register
Log In
Home
May 3, 2018
Offline
Hi, I have a .357 15-2 built in Monson that I am in the process of tuning up a bit and correcting endshake. The gun doesn't appear worn out in any way but did have a fairly excessive amount of endshake (fore and aft movement of the cylinder) that may be causing some problems with light primer strikes on the factory springs. The alignment ball and spring is in good condition.
I purchased some shims from triggershims.com to try out and am confused about where exactly to put them.
On their website it seems they should go on like any other revolver on the front of the cylinder, but if I put them there they get crushed in the operation of the crane. There is a staked on bushing directly under the ejector star, and the bushings will fit under that, but that doesn't seem to be quite right.
On the front of the cylinder there is a part that extends to the crane, but I can't tell if it's machined into the cylinder or removable.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Thank you,
Cam
October 17, 2017
Offline
The front cylinder bushing (butts against the crane) is the one you need to deal with. The shims you purchased need to go under that bushing. The trick is figuring out how to get that bushing to come out without damaging it. Sometimes the bushing comes out easily, and on other guns it can be nearly impossible to get it out. You could try soaking it with Breakfree or some other gun cleaning solvent for a few days, and try again. The bushing is not as hard a steel as you think it might be, and it can be damaged rather easily (I learned the hard way, and ended up having to buy a replacement cylinder).
Best advice: if a good soaking doesn't break it loose take it to a gunsmith. He will have the proper tools to remove the bushing without damage.
Good luck!
Dans Club
December 5, 2008
Offline
Cam,
I'm having a hard time picturing your problem. Can you provide photos?
I have installed shims on several DW's and never had a problem just placing them on the crane before putting the cylinder on the crane. In fact, that is just what the factory did on one of my 715's. They work fine like that for me.
I would be surprised if you could put them on the bushing even if you get it off. My shims have a hole the size of the crane shaft and would be too small to fit around the bushing since it is a larger outside diameter than the crane.
October 17, 2017
Offline
I was just looking at some photos recently posted of a Palmer .357 (fixed barrel) and noticed something about the crane that appears to be different from my early 15-2. On the early 15-2 the front cylinder bushing rests directly on the frame when closed (which is why the shims must be placed under the bushing), but it looks like the later 15-2 has a flange that the bushing rests against (a little bit like a S&W) thereby making it very easy to insert shims there and not interfere with closing the cylinder. Anyone know when this change occurred? Also, are the large frame revolvers made this way as well?
October 17, 2017
Offline
This is most likely 
October 17, 2017
Offline
Just so you know I'm not crazy; here's a photo of my early 15-2 showing the cylinder bushing pulled out of its "pocket". Note the .002 shim that is still on the crane shaft ready to be inserted along with the bushing. If you have an early 15-2 (or, I assume, any of the "pork chop" Dans) this is how they are supposed to go together.
Be careful not to over do it on the shims. Just enough so that the bushing barely touches the frame when closed is what we're looking for. Any more, and the spring loaded detent ball will start to press the bushing against the frame causing excess wear (powder residue is unfortunately an efficient grinding compound).
Dans Club
December 5, 2008
Offline
Thanks for the great info Eric!
I have learned something new today! 
October 17, 2017
Offline
You're quite welcome, snake-eye. I've learned a lot from joining the DWF, and also from many hours of hands-on tinkering on my 15-2 over the past year. As one member recently pointed out, "the DW is a thinking man's gun", and I've certainly had to think my way through some puzzles with this revolver. Finally got most of it figured out now, but there can always more to learn. If I were ever to take on another DW adventure it will likely be with a "pork chop". They are where it all began, and while perhaps not the most attractive revolvers they do have a curious charm all their own.
February 20, 2008
Offline
that bushing riding on the frame was an issue many years ago with the Monson guns, and in the mid 70s they started to change the upper crane leg to one that had a shoulder, and the cylinder rode on this shoulder ,instead of the frame itself..here are a couple of old pictures we had from this......the proper "correction" was to redo the cylinder cut back the bushing and allow a new upper crane leg to be put on the crane, as seen in the pictures..........sorry they are small
the picture above from '3ric' shows the original design, and how it was done..........
It is not that difficult to change, redo ( I call it update) we used to do this when we had our shop Cleveland Bluing Co and we were "warrenty repair" for Dan Wesson, yes, the old man himself was MY instructor, taught us to build his guns from scratch.....I still have some of these newer style upper crane legs in our parts box if you want one, no we are retired and no longer work on any guns ;gave up our license back in 1995,,,,,,,,,,but not that hard to explain just what needs to be done, wonder if anyone at the factory today even knows??? that bushing digging in the frame after many rounds would throw the head space off..........
dant
Supporter
Moderators
Dans Club
February 22, 2009
Offline
Dan, If I had a like button, I'd punch it now....
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
October 17, 2017
Offline
Great information, dant. Thank you!
My first revolver was a Colt Trooper MK lll. The Trooper (as per Colt's design of the time) also has the cylinder bushing resting against the frame. No real issues doing it that way, as the only slight forward pressure applied is from the hand turning the cylinder. However, the Dan Wesson's spring loaded detent ball is putting constant forward pressure on the cylinder when closed. Ideally, the detent ball's tension should be fully depleted (ball nesting inside the frame) at the same time the cylinder bushing just barely contacts the frame. As long as it is set up this way no excess wear should occur.
I'm tempted to take you up on your offer of supplying both the replacement upper crane leg and instructions on how to change it out, but not sure how to go about it.
For now though, I think I'll keep my early 15-2 historically correct. I'm sure it will outlast me as is.
February 20, 2008
Offline
I am not certain when or at what serial number they made the change in th e upper crane leg, just know that it was done later in the mid 70s, last time I was at the factory( old school house basement) was mid, late 1973......they showed me how to add ( change) the upper crane legs...press out the old one and cut the bushing back ( shorten it) so it was actually recessed in the cylinder end for the clearance of the "shoulder"...GOOD idea and it worked trying to recall our visit with Dan W. himself, and Dottie one of the "builders" and Fred ,we met with....wow, that was some time ago....sadly we never, ever took any pictures, heck, it was all work, NOT "history".........
I wish I still had one of the 15-2 VH we rechambered ( built the cylinders from scratch) in .256 Win, gotten written up in American Handgunner back then.........those were the days............
dant
May 3, 2018
Offline
Thank you all very much for the responses. It sounds like my bushing it just well in there, doubt it has ever come out of the gun. Hopefully I'll be able to get it out without damaging it.
If someone has a picture of the "newer" style of crane-bushing arrangement that would help just to make sure.
Thanks,
Cam
May 3, 2018
Offline
Tried to get the bushing out, no luck, have it soaking in oil for the night. Any idea on the best way to remove it? Nowhere really to get a purchase on it and it will bend in or pop out (if braced) in a vice.
Absolute worst case scenario, I am considering getting a shim/washer roughly the thickness of protrusion of the bushing out from the cylinder, facing off the cylinder bushing flush or just above flush with the cylinder and then playing with the shims from there. Don't really want to do that to this gun but I'm not sure this bushing is going to come out. Inside the cylinder, the bushing almost looks welded in spots to the cylinder.
October 17, 2017
Offline
Cam,
I know your frustration all too well, believe me. I've been in exactly your position and ended up damaging my cylinder bushing trying to get it out. Not badly (could still use the gun), but I knew it would never be quite 'right' again.
I ended up buying a replacement cylinder/crane assembly on eBay for 2 reasons: 1- the damage to the bushing, and 2- my cylinder had very bad machining marks on the inside of the chambers which sometimes caused difficult extraction of spent cases. So, I killed two birds with one stone, but it cost me $150.00 plus shipping. Luckily, the new cylinder had very smoothly finished chambers; so no more extraction issues.
The post 6 photo is of my current cylinder, and as you can see the cylinder bushing comes out as it is supposed to (lucky for me once again). I really don't think your bushing is welded in there although it must surely seem that way to you right now. I again urge you to see a gunsmith before you wreck this cylinder bushing, as I imagine it would be quite difficult to find a replacement. He will likely have the correct tools to get that thing out in a few minutes, and it will cost you a lot less than the $150.00 I spent!
Why didn't I go see a gunsmith you ask? Just too stubborn I guess; determined I could do it myself. Learned the hard way. My wife would absolutely agree!!
One other option, perhaps the best: take dant (post 9) up on his offer to supply you with the new style upper crane leg along with instructions on how to install it. It's a better design, and if you ever need to add a shim it will be a snap to do.
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Eric
February 20, 2008
Offline
here are a couple more pictures of the parts and tool ( made from a 25/64 drill bit,with a 5/16 inch "pilot" cut on the end of it)
and the three types of crane legs used back then...the double one was used first and I recall they went to the thinner ridge on their guns later on in th e mid 70's??? been a while now........
and YES, there was a gage to align the center ( bore) of the cylinder with the hole in the recoil shield.
THose bushings were just pressed in so it takes heat or Kroil (soaked over night) to possibly loosen the bushing,,,,,,and yes as '3ric stated above can easily booger ,mess up a cylinder face trying to remove it. as you see sometimes they fall right out and others locked in "forever" and NO, it is not adviseable to "shim" the front edge as the shim can and will "split" riding on the frame of the gun, so would need a to remove bushing shim BEHIND it ,,,the bushing is approx. .384"dia. by .421" long....with a 5/16 center opening........hope this helps, again, its been a few years since we did one ( 40 years)????
dant
1 Guest(s)
