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December 3, 2015
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Stopped at a long standing Mom and Pop, in the country gun store a few days ago. The antithesis of the large chrome and glass places. The older curmudgeon owner / gunsmith was there. His father ( now passed on ) started the business a very long time ago and both are well regarded in the firearms community.
I always ask if there are any Dan Wessons. There were none but a conversation ensued in regards to them. I mentioned that I had a liking for the pork chop models and would love to find a D-8 or D-9 chambered for .38 Special only. I went on to explain that I would prefer to have a cylinder machined precisely for the .38 cartridge rather than firing .38 special from a .357 Mag. dimensioned cylinder. He stated that no such revolver existed as Porkers. He said that the Porkers marked .38 special would also chamber a .357 Mag. cartridge. My knowledge on these particular revolvers is not extensive enough to begin a Urinary Olympics on the subject with him, so I let it lie.
I can understand the barrel and shroud being dimensionally the same on a .38 special marked revolver and a .357 Mag. marked revolver. However, why bother marking a revolver ".38 special Ctg." if it also fires .357 Mag?
So how about some of you collectors educate me on the matter.
How about later non pork chop models marked .38 Special Ctg?
Thank you, DD
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December 4, 2011
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The model 8 and 9 non pork chop guns are chambered in 38 special only. Many owners reamed the chamber to take the 357 cartridge. I have a non pork model 8 that is 38 special. I 'll assume the pork chops marked 38 special are just that.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
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December 3, 2015
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SCORPIO said
The model 8 and 9 non pork chop guns are chambered in 38 special only. Many owners reamed the chamber to take the 357 cartridge. I have a non pork model 8 that is 38 special. I 'll assume the pork chops marked 38 special are just that.
Thanks, that teaches me something right off the bat. I read the information here on the forum about the different models of DW revolvers. I came away thinking that the D-8 and D-9 were early models. ( Porkers). My mistake.
Were there any pork chop models chambered or marked as ".38 Special Ctg? If there was, what was the designated model or what were they called?
Scorpio, if I read your comment correctly A .357 Magnum cartridge will not fully enter the cylinder and allow it to be closed. Is that correct? This is what I would expect in any make revolver roll marked as .38 Special Ctg.
February 16, 2016
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Basically, I don't believe the .38 Spl cylinder is any shorter in length than the .357 mag cylinder and the difference was only the chambering of the bore.
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May 11, 2011
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Give me a chance to dig out my pork 38 special, I'll check, but if it does take a 357 it may have been bored out. I also have to find my 1911 to put a new pair of grips on and take a picture. Finally I'm working on my return karma, should be next week. Been really busy!!!!!!!!!!!
willy
December 3, 2015
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Stinger,
I would expect the cylinders between a .38 Special and a .357 Mag. to have the same external dimensions. However, I have always thought that the bores were machined to different dimensions in regards to the depth of the bore where it transitions to the cylinder throat. If you can insert and fire a .357 Mag. cartridge in a DW Marked .38 Special the only difference between that gun and a .357 would be the cartridge marking stamped on the barrel. Essentially this is what the Gun store owner was trying to sell me. Of course all this would not apply to the "lil Dan". But I believe that is a revolver that came along quite a bit later in the Palmer era of production.
Willy,
Thank you, checking yours would be helpful. I am curious to see what you find.
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December 4, 2011
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Cylinder length is the same, only 38 special chambers are shorter. There are some 38 special pork chop models.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
March 25, 2008
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This is just a side note, with the Dan Wesson's most early one were only marked on the side of the shrouds. With the .38 special and .357 mags basicly being the same cartridge caliber the only difference being in the length of the case and overall finished length of the cartridge. I'm sure over the years shrouds have been mixed and miss matched by difference owners. I've tried to find older .38 spcl. in the porkchop style and have found only one that wouldn't chamber the .357 mag. When I see one listed I ask the owner if they would try to chamber a .357 mag round to see if it will fully chamber before I bid. I have found a .38spcl. palmer era shroud new in the box that will fit any of the .357 mag. frames. The search is to find a Palmer era .38 spcl. frame.(if they exist).
Lets say that this is the fun part of the DW collection game!
December 3, 2015
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I will stick with my belief that a revolver marked .38 Special Ctg. has cylinder bores that will accept a .38 Special Ctg. and will not accept a .357 Mag. Ctg. That is, if the shroud and frame are original to each other and someone has not altered the cylinder bores.
Perhaps the gunsmith / gun store owner at some point in time had a Dan Wesson cross his bench that would chamber both. If so, it probably was one that the chambers had been lengthened from original or as pops2 suggests had a .38 shroud placed upon a .357 frame.
Thanks everyone for the responses.
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December 4, 2011
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I have a Palmer 709 fixed barrel marked 38 special, so they do exist. Problem is a lot of owners reamed the chambers out to take the 357 cartridge, probably feeling it was an upgrade and not worrying about collectability twenty years down the road.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
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March 25, 2013
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Okay, my two cents. My belief is that a gun chambered in 38 spec originally chambered only that. The gunshop owner is mistaken. Or a fool. I recently saw a porkchop 38 on Gunbroker whose seller also claimed it chambered 357. I think it is still listed. The sale fell through and it is relisted with no reserve now. Nickel. I am telling this so I don' feel compelled to bid. Another thing to consider. Porkchop cylinders are easily removed by taking off the shroud. A 357 cylinder is easily switched for the factory 38 spec. I would do that before I had a cylinder reamed if I was so inclined. It would not impact the collectablity and the extra cylinder would cost less than a reaming. I have an almost ANIB 38 spec porkchop. When I next rummage through the safe I will test a 357 cartridge in it.
Update. I DID bid on it. I probably need an intervention. My Acquisition Syndrome is now metastized to many makes and models. Looking at Smith model 41s and Korths among many others.
March 25, 2008
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as a FYI I asked the owner of the nickle now listed if he would chamber a .357 mag round in his .38spcl. pistol and his response was that it would so my guess is that at some point the shroud was added later in the guns life then plated. It is a clean looking gun
December 3, 2015
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I hav not logged into Gunbroker in about 8 months. Mainly because with the shipping and the outrageous FFL fees that are commanded in my State, it just makes it cost prohibitive. I stay away so I don't torture myself.
However, I am off to view the one mentioned. Can't resist to just take a look. No interest in bidding.
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February 22, 2009
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I was going to bid on it last go-around but asked the same question. If it's got a .38 SPC shroud and can chamber a .357 maggi, I don't want it... just my $.02.
I don't have any 38 pork but do have two 8-2s. Always seeking but having a hard time finding anything I "need"....
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
December 3, 2015
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Finally found it. Seller must have talked to guy at my LGS. LOL
Also, I see he said "original nickel finish". Is that correct?
Just trying to get educated for any possible future prospects.
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December 4, 2011
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They made nickel in both polished and matte. I have one in matte nickel.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
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March 25, 2013
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Originally they made fixed sight models in matte and and adjustable sight guns were polished. At some point they started polishing some Model 14-2s. Scorpio, are the matte finished nickel guns the fixed sight model 14s? I have a polished model 14 that that has one of the most amazing double action trigger of all my Dans. I think the nickel plating on the inside is a factor. Most factory nickel guns I have seen are model 14 and 15. I have seen less 14-1 and 15-1. And very few 14 and 15-2s.
December 3, 2015
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So the one on GB might be a .38 ( 15-1 ?) that was nickel plated at the factory and then had the Cylinder bores lengthened by an owner sometime during it's life, OR a factory nickel Frame in .357 Mag. that someone placed a .38 shroud on that they had nickel plated to match.
Or, I suppose it could be a factory .38 that was originally in the blue that an owner had nickel plated AND lengthened the bores to accept .357 Mag. If they did they were smart enough to leave the hammer and trigger without plating.
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March 25, 2013
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It is a 15, not a 15-1. The model number could be under the crane. If an N in it, it would be factory. I am suspect of the seller's veracity. He said the former owner said it chambered 357. I suspect he did not check it himself. My full name is Ron Often Wrong but I think it is a factory nickel 38. Someone overbid me so I am saved. Thanks for the intervention!! The first time it was listed it went over 550 but failed to meet reserve. One drawback of nickel, chrome, 38 spec, etc is the difficulty of finding matching shrouds. Also keep in mind that 11,12, 14, 15, 14-1 and 15-1 shrouds all have different height front sights. 11 and 14, and 12 and 15 are the same I think but the barrels are different length.
December 3, 2015
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Ole Dog said
It is a 15, not a 15-1. The model number could be under the crane. If an N in it, it would be factory. I am suspect of the seller's veracity. He said the former owner said it chambered 357. I suspect he did not check it himself. My full name is Ron Often Wrong but I think it is a factory nickel 38. Someone overbid me so I am saved. Thanks for the intervention!! The first time it was listed it went over 550 but failed to meet reserve. One drawback of nickel, chrome, 38 spec, etc is the difficulty of finding matching shrouds. Also keep in mind that 11,12, 14, 15, 14-1 and 15-1 shrouds all have different height front sights. 11 and 14, and 12 and 15 are the same I think but the barrels are different length.
Reason I thought it was possibly a 15-1 is in fact the front sight height. I have a porker DW shroud that I use on my orphan HS sentinel MK 111. ( still searching for a HS shroud ) The sight on the shroud is very tall. I have been under the belief it was for a DW model 15. The sight on my DW porker shroud is noticeably taller than the front sight on the nickel plated DW on Gunbroker.
Am I wrong in thinking that a front sight on a DW model 15 would be taller than a front sight on a DW model 15-1?
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