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October 11, 2009
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I have always wondered about the durability of the internal lock work of DW revolvers.
Now I don't know about the large frame guns but I do know about the small frames.
The design and materials don't seem to have been made as well as the other brands.
Plus the design of the DW leaves a little to be desired. Such as that little retainer spring that keeps the transfer bar in check. The half moon ring that holds the cylinder in place. And I have seen on other owners guns the retainer pin that keeps the cylinder latch in place work its way out. The internal workings seem to be made of sintered steel
instead of case hardened steel. Plus you have to keep an eye on your side plate screws to make sure they stay tight after a long shooting session. Now before you all come to my home with torches and hang ropes please let me say that all guns have to be maintained and I do keep all my guns in clean good condition. I love my DW's and will defend to the death their honor and heritage. All I'm asking is just how stout are they internally?, And in an extreme setting such as being marooned on an island with 10000 rounds of ammo and my DW model 15 by my side and nothing but wild pigs to eat. No tools and some gun oil, how will she hold up? Thank you. Hopefully I'm not a disbarred member.
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November 17, 2008
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You are lucky as all the torch material is wet and I can't find a rope.
All kidding aside its a fair question. I will answer best I can and let others expand or correct on my comments. The sintered steel parts were phased out fairly early on as I understand so only some early models will have them. (can't prove this) As for durability, DWs reighned supreme on the silhouette range for a long time when the bigger more well known brands (I wont name them) would shake apart due to the high round count of hot loads needed for the silhouette game. It is also common in reloading manuals to see loads listed as use in TCs and DWs only. All this speaks to the strength and durability of DWs. While any thing can break and or needs maintenance the reputation of DW is top shelf. Not everybody likes DWs but most anyone (who knows any thing about firearms) will tell you they are tough.
LB
Wisdom is merely the realization of how little one knows, therefore I am wise.
June 29, 2012
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Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Dantanna58 said
The design and materials don't seem to have been made as well as the other brands.Are you speaking from personal experience?
And I have seen on other owners guns the retainer pin that keeps the cylinder latch in place work its way out.
I've never had this happen, however this part is normally a screw that could conceivably work loose
The internal workings seem to be made of sintered steel
Not on a -2 series gun. Many high level modern guns have MIM parts, essentially a similar process.
Plus you have to keep an eye on your side plate screws to make sure they stay tight after a long shooting session.
I've been shooting Dan Wesson's for over 30 years, never had this happen
All I'm asking is just how stout are they internally?
How often have any of us had an internal part fail? Any manufactured device can break, but the DW Small Frame has demonstrated durability on a par with the strongest .357's made. The design has been in place for over 35 years with no changes, upgrades, redesigns, and minimal manufacturer support.
And in an extreme setting such as being marooned on an island with 10000 rounds of ammo and my DW model 15 by my side and nothing but wild pigs to eat. No tools and some gun oil, how will she hold up?
So a pig lasts you 3 days, a one shot kill means you take 120 pigs per year for 83+ years?
Hopefully I'm not a disbarred member.
Of course not, but I don't get the point.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
October 11, 2009
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I have owned several DW model 15's and 15-2's and once a 715. The early 15's I had
were shot quite a bit. One time the cylinder advancing hand would not turn the cylinder into full battery. I thought it was build up at the face of the cylinder and forcing cone. That was not the problem. I found that the top screw on the side plate had loosened and the side plate came away from the frame. I tightened it. Problem solved. At the time I was working for a very good gunsmith as his apprentice if you will. My simple job was to replace factory parts in revolvers that had broken with factory replacement parts. One day I decided to disassemble my DW 15 and give it a total cleaning. I found the lock work to be quite simple. Especially compared to a Colt or S&W. The transfer bar was kept in check by a very thin wire spring. The yoke was held in place by a half moon clip. The hammer and trigger felt strange. I was told it was sintered steel. A powdery metal that can be formed into what ever you want. Colt used it in their Trooper MK 3's. I stand corrected on the cylinder latch pin I meant screw. But my brother had a 15-2 that had this screw fall out while he was shooting it. When he opened the cylinder and released the latch it popped out. Now I know that ALL firearms can shoot loose and wear out. Look at S&W"s. Such as the old model 19's and 66's. They made so many modifications to it over its life time.
The old ejector rods would unscrew, they reversed the threads. The side plate yoke screw would back out. Thats why they went to a spring and plunger like Colt.
They used to pin their barrels to the frame so it would not unscrew. Now they use a crush fit. Colt did not have this problem because of the twist in the barrel. It was opposite to S&W. When you fired a Colt it would have a tightening effect. Not to mention the K frames worst enemy of all. Constant use of high velocity 125 grain magnum loads. Flame cutting of the top strap and forcing cone erosion and splitting. Simply put. In a side by side torture test comparison with Colt, S&W, Ruger and Taurus, how would the lock work of a small frame DW stand? Taking the pigs out of the equation. If you must must hang me, spare my family and home please.
October 11, 2009
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And one other item, as proof evidence to the jury that the cylinder latch "SCREW" can make its way out. Check out "Youtube" video Dan Wesson 715. It happened to this fellow, it happened to my brother's gun. Also as evidence of what I say is true. Another reason DW's are so accurate besides the universally known barrel under tension. Is one the flat muzzle and two and the one that seems to be over looked the most on small frame DW"s is the short hammer fall. Check it against the other brands. Especially the Python and Ruger Blackhawks. If you are a shooter you will find that the DW small frame has the shortest hammer arc. From the time you trip the hammer to primer ignition your muzzle can waver. And in long range shooting such as IHMSA the slightest waver can throw you off quite a few inches down range. Now to the strength of the DW. DW's have a very thick top strap and frame. Much thicker than a S&W. But frame strength has nothing to do with the internal lock work mechanism. I have never seen a DW in an IPSC match. S&W's reign supreme there. That does not mean that S&W's are better. The reason is S&W's have the fastest trigger return spring of all of them. DW, Colt, Ruger etc. Please understand that I know I must sound like I am preaching to the choir. And I am not a know it all. But as Elmer Keith said. "Hell, I was there!" And I would not be here if I had all the answers. In long term non stop shooting. How would the DW lockwork hold up as opposed to the other major brands? Not just shooting in IHMSA matches where its just cock and fire, cock and fire. I mean rapid fire double action. Over an over again. Like in an IPSC match. Where the trigger mechanism takes a real pounding.
My thanks to the jury. I rest my case.
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December 4, 2011
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I'm no expert or gunsmith but my first hand experience with my Dans, and specifically my 15-2 that I've owned for over a quarter century, is that they are very rugged. In all the time I've owned and fired my 15-2 I've never had the side place off or done anything to the trigger or other internal components. I've never shot an IPSC match but I have run many rounds of hot 357 mag loads thru it and never had a light strike, FTF or other malfuntion.
I think alot of problems can arise from poor maint by previous owners or hack job, kitchen table gunsmithing by novices. If the problems you mention occured to guns you or your brother bought new, then that would not be the case.
My grand fater was a master mechanic and chief of experimental testing for Lycoming Aircraft engines during WWII. When ever I had a problem with a car or piece of machinery he would always say 'if it was built by a man, it can break'. If I was intimidated by something he would also say, 'if a man made it, a man can fix it, so take it apart and fix it.'
The take away here for me is that anything can and will break, but on the whole, I think the DW is a simple, rugged design that has stood the test of time.
Now if somebody will donate a nice Ruger, Colt and Smith to me as well as a free supply of ammo, I'll be glad to test each to failure and report back my results. Be advised, it may take me a few years to complete these tests.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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I know I jumped pretty hard on this, and I respect the experience and expertise of everyone here. I've had a few of my own problems, including:
A cylinder stop broken off the sideplate of my first DW (still broken, still drops out in a long shooting session, still gotta scramble around on the ground to find it)
Ejector rod that backs out
The touchy grip screw/light strike problem
The incredibly stupid Power Control compensated barrel venting on the .44's
Every mechanical device has quirks, some based on design, some based on manufacturing issues with an individual sample.
The design and execution of every mechanical device has inherent capabilities and challenges. My responsibility as the owner of the device is to understand it's capabilities and challenges, and to maximize the capabilities and minimize the challenges.
Realistically, what gun does anyone want to count on for 10,000 rounds with "No tools and some gun oil". Kind of like wanting to rely on driving my car for a few years with no maintenance or repairs. If I do that, I deserve whatever happens.
Reminds me of the '73 Plymouth Duster that I just never seemed to change the oil on very often, it taught me a costly and terminal lesson late one night. I deserved it.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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December 4, 2011
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I watched the video and the set screw for the cyl latch did come out. Now, watching the guy doing the video, it appeared to me that his maint. skills are a bit in question. Using pliers on the plastic barrel wrench to get the barrel nut loose, 
that just screamed hack job to me. If you don't have the right tool, get one, or make one. Also, he suggested the use of blue or RED locktite on the barrel nut!
I know there are a few of us who have had stuck barrel nuts, I can't even imagine trying to remove a nut held on with RED locktite! I believe it says to use heat and special tools to remove it. If your barrel is getting loose after 100 rounds or so, try making it tighter the next time, don't EVER use RED locktite unless you want a home made 'fixed barrel' DW.
I'm not trying to say that these guns are faultless, because they aren't. What I'm saying is a properly maintained DW is on par with the other major revolver manufacturers.
BTW I doubt I'd be shooting combat with a stock 25 year old revolver without a trigger job, internal polish and a new set of springs. To expect that from a stock revolver is unrealistic IMHO.
I agree with Steve, its never a good idea to ignore maint. on any mechanical device and expect reliable, long term function.
Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
My father
If a man designed it, and a man built it, then a man can fix it.
My grandfather
October 26, 2008
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I have a couple small frames that the screw for the cylinder latch backs out, the worst case of it is with my Palmer 722 it would do it within a 550 pack, superglue fixed it.
I believe DW went to cast internal parts sometime early in the -2 series, so they should last about as long as any Ruger out there.
I have not heard about the screw on the sideplate issue however, I can believe it. Tooling wears and people aren't always on the ball in replacing it and an overtorqued screw can stretch the threads and make a tiny problem worse.
The music wire spring that tensions the hand and keeps the transfer bar in place is a joke and is flimsy i have to agree with that however, it does seem to work.
The cylinder retainer I believe is rather smart it is much larger in terms of surface area than the other major brands, Smith used a small screw and switched now to a copy of Colt's system with a spring and V shaped plunger IIRC, and Rugers design doesn't allow for replacement if you do end up with endshake. Dan did do a poor job in my opinion of fitting them as most have yoke endshake right from the beginning including my new 715 although it is less than the prior factories.
Since you brought up lock work I'll give my opinions. In single action most guns have creep, the double action stacks so bad in most of them that it's difficult to shoot in DA, although it seems to vary greatly some being terrible some decent, the trigger return is sluggish even freshly cleaned and greased and just gets worse with grit buildup. DW's obviously vary widely in quality in my opinion in terms of how good their triggers are. I have a couple that I didn't feel the need to work on and even more that were unbearable, for me. I wish that CZ would've improved the lockwork when they re-introduced (and then discontinued, but that's a different subject) them.
October 11, 2009
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I just used the Youtube video" Dan Wesson 715" to show that the latch screw can and does come out. And I have to agree that the part when he said to use "Lock Tight" on the barrel nut made me shutter a bit. But the old boy was not too bad of a shot using his "Salad Load". Besides I liked the back ground music. And it was a pretty 715.
February 11, 2010
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So ya had to dig in the closet did ya 
But seriously Dans were designed to work on and no owner should leave
home without the Dan tool (for what it was it worked) and if said screws
are constantly coming loose, you should try replacing them first before
adding a loctite to the equation.
Member superdan is correct, the hand and transfer bar springs are
flimsy. No one has tried to "beef" these springs up so we don't know
what other changes it might make if done.
The C-lock that holds the cylinder yoke assembly and allows yoke
play can be fixed if not worn too far. Place C-lock on hard steel rod of same
diameter and hammer the spine of C-lock. This will fatten C-lock and
take up the gap in the yoke groove. If C-lock is too wide it can be sanded
or laid flat on steel and hammered for width. If all else fails C-lock can be
purchased at CZ/DW, also you can cut out your own from a spring that is the
proper size.
Not mentioned about the Dan is the lack of pre-lockup or pre-time, this seems
to affect the small frame more and causes a problem with those owners that
choose to shoot in DA.
I first saw this when my Bro-in-law shot my 15-2 for the first
time, he was so slow in DA you could count cards in the time it took him to
get off a round. He complained of feeling lead spitting and I just racked it
up to some newly purchased .38's but when I looked at the case primers
later I could see the hits were off center. I later tried to repeat the spitting
with same ammo and under normal DA could not, but with super long
drawn out DA pulls I could.
This can easily be tested, while pulling in DA take finger or thumb of off hand
and put a small amount of drag on cylinder, you will notice on some guns the
hammer will drop before the bolt will come up and completely
engage the cylinder. With normal SA and DA motion this is not a problem.
I only own one small frame but have checked this on quite a few gun show
Dans that I have seen in the last year or two and most are the same. The
few that did not seemed to have a slight binding feel to their cycling.
If this scenario were to be a problem for any Dan owner it could easily be
remedied with a new hand custom fitted slowly and properly by owner.
-Blacktop
October 11, 2009
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I wonder if the new guns that CZ/ came out with a few month's ago had the lockwork improved upon. They stated in their initial ad that they were the finest DW's ever made. But I know of no one that has purchased one. In fact I have never seen one except on "GunBroker". And they looked as though the shroud had been altered some what. Wonder what other alterations they may have made.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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The shroud is a somewhat different configuration. There was one owned on the Forum, but I don't think his feedback ever got to the internals.
I think it's unlikely that significant changes were made to the internals, due to incompatibility issues with existing guns, but improvements could have been made that would easily retrofit to older guns in some instances.
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
October 26, 2008
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I bought one and did a write up, posts 33 & 35 are pics and 37 is my review here's the link
https://www.danwessonforum.com/forum/revolvers/whats-in-the-box/page-2/
BTW- they didn't change internals at all that but the fitting did seem to be tighter or maybe I should say more properly fit than my Monson's or Palmer's
October 11, 2009
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Well Super Dan,
You must have money to burn after I saw your review on that "New" DW. They charged you $1100 for that? At least it groups well. I'm surprised it does not have one of those internal "Lawyer Locks". Check out what Marlin and Smith and Wesson is putting out these days. And the prices they charge. Check out "Death of the Marlin Lever Action" on Youtube. Also "Problems with Smith And Wesson Revolvers ". Look on the Marlin forum. It really makes for depressing reading. I hope CZ fixed your new gun. I will say it has a handsome profile to it.
February 11, 2010
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Dantanna58 said
Check out "Death of the Marlin Lever Action" on Youtube. Also "Problems with Smith And Wesson Revolvers ". Look on the Marlin forum. It really makes for depressing reading.
Let's not go there, this forum is not large enough to list all the problems
S&W has had over the years 
.
Hey ! I had to do it 
-Blacktop
October 11, 2009
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Now, Now Blacktop. Lets have some respect. We are talking about Mr Dan Wesson's family. But then again, he did leave the company. Maybe he knew something.
December 12, 2009
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The DW internals from my understanding were designed by the same man who designed the King Cobra and Anaconda. As the owner of a DW that was nearly destroyed by the L.A. firing range, and after a handful of parts is still competing to this day, I say hats off to DW. It will out live us and our children, and grandchildren under normal use. It mite not be a work of art under the hood, but it is a extremely good design and offers at least 50,000 to 100,000 rounds before it needs to be overhauled. Unless You Use My Loads...LOL.
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