GARY ROTH said

How does the roll pin work to hold the firing pin and spring in place?  Is it related to the "notch" in the side of the pin? 

Yes, the roll pin keeps the firing pin from "falling out" backwards towards the hammer. In this crude and not to scale drawing, you can somewhat see how the roll pin helps retain the firing pin in place.

Once the roll pin has been removed - you can pull the firing pin & spring out the back (pull back the hammer some) for removal, cleaning, or replacement.

I like to use a small magnet to remove the firing pin easily once the roll pin has been taken out. It also tends to pull out the spring along with the firing pin as a one piece unit, so you are less prone to drop anything.

The firing pin spring mostly makes sure that the firing pin retracts "flush" and does not stay stuck in the protruded position. It also likely offers a small amount of gun drop safety protection as well. In my experience firing pin springs are pretty much fool proof, unless installed backwards.

(If installed backwards the spring tends to bind up on a tapered firing pin)

A firing pin spring can also cause binding/hanging up problems if it gets broken from repeated dry firing, but that's a somewhat rare occurrence. You will recognize it pretty fast if it does happen though, as the spring will come out in multiple pieces if broken.

 

- Bullwolf

good news and bad.  The roll pin is out, but the 1/16th punch broke off in the gun frame and is now holding the firing pin and spring in place of the roll pin.  no good deed goes unpunished...!

GARY ROTH said
soooo., off  to the hardware store for a new roll punch to knock out the broken punch tip. a few minutes later the firing pin was out.

What tool did you use to cut down the base of the standard firing pin? 

 
Thank you Bulwolf for your advice and great drawings. 

Glad you got the tip of the roll pin punch out with no problems, and you are most welcome.

I intentionally bought 2 firing pins, and chucked the spare one into the drill press. Using a file, I removed a few thousandths of material from the firing pin base stop so as to get a deeper strike. Then I polished the firing pin up with emery cloth, oil and fine wet/dry paper up to 1200 grit.

Notice that this stunt did not help me with my misfire issues one bit. I just wanted to be sure that a short firing pin strike wasn't the problem.

After this, I had established that my problems were coming from someplace else in the gun (my weakened main spring) So I removed the modified firing pin, and replaced it with the standard one.

Be very careful if you decide to modify your firing pin. A too long, or too sharp/pointy firing pin can lead to pierced primers, and can even tie up a revolver. Pierced primers can vent dangerously in the direction of your face, and can also flame cut the firing pin, bushing, and revolver recoil shield area.

If you continue to have misfire problems, I would replace the main spring/hammer spring with a new standard weight spring. Sometimes it's surprising what a tear down and clean up can do for a Dan Wesson, but remember springs don't keep their tension indefinitely, or last forever. Unless you're the original owner, you never really know what the person before you did with (or did to) the gun.

If you do decide to change out the mainspring, I think the neatest trick in the world is to capture the mainspring while the hammer is cocked using the side plate screw. That little tip made my life SO much easier.

Best of luck to you with your Dan Wesson endeavors.

 

- Bullwolf

The trip to the range did not go as i had hoped.  The ftf - light hit problem continues.  In addition, several .357 shells that did fire jammed in the cylinder and the ejector would not push them out even after they cooled.  The cylinder is clean and shiny so i don't think the problem is residue from prior owner's use of 38 special.  To top it off, the cylinder and trigger jammed for a short time.  

I emailed CZ.  The gunsmith there thinks these problems may be due to head space mis adjustment  and suggested that I send them the gun for examination.  They also said that the jammed shells may be due to "warped" cylinder, and it may need to be replaced.  the gun is now in their hands. 

I will let the forum know what they say after they examine the gun.

from this experience and on line forums it seems like DW's are temperamental creatures.  It is cool to be able to change barrels (have 3) but so far the firearm has been high maintenance, frustrating and expensive.   I will wait for the gun to come back from CZ before making any decisions but may just put it up for sale and buy another S&W.

yes, very frustrating.  Never had any of these problems with my Smiths.  Hopefully, CZ will be able to fix the problems at a reasonable cost.

 

I left the empties in the gun when I sent it to CZ; didn't want to force the ejector and wanted them to see the problem first hand.  

brucertx said
I just read this entire thread for the second time. Unfortunately, it appears Gary's Dan requires an ER visit. I do have to say that I was very impressed with the excellent feedback and suggestions made by Bullwolf. That's the kind of member support that, in my opinion, sets the DWF above most other forums. 

Thank you for the kind words brucertx.

The only other thing I had thought to suggest would be checking the tension on the cylinder ball.

It's been mentioned before in a great write up by one of our Dan Wesson forum members, Nigel here.

https://www.danwessonforum.com/forum/revolvers/fixed-an-intermittent-double-action-misfire/

From time to time with any manufacturer you can just end up with a problem child. Lets face it a warped cylinder might just be out of the average Joe's hands. I am sure that CZ will take care of him though.

I have a few Smith revolvers myself, and I do like them quite a bit, but when push comes to shove I can not work on the Smith's myself, or adjust an out of tolerance barrel to cylinder gap one of my Smiths or Ruger's without a trip back to the factory.

One of the things I enjoy about the Dan Wesson revolvers is that they are so very user maintainable, and frankly unless you purchase someone Else's problem (as I did with my shortened spring 714) they are pretty much built like tanks. When I'm testing a new load, and I want a strong gun, I always reach for the Dan Wesson revolvers first.

For example while working up some 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum loads using Alliant Steel and a chronograph when there was no load data available for me to reference - I worked the loads up using a pair of stout Dan Wesson revolvers.

(Links below for the curious)

https://www.danwessonforum.com/forum/revolvers/nice-group-with-new-ewk-barrel/

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?242134-Alliant-Steel

Sometimes problems do come up with Dan Wesson revolvers. Often though they aren't manufacturer problems, but previous owner created ones due to the removable barrel element & barrel multi-tool included in the box. Couple this with people who just shouldn't use tools in the first place, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Another trend that I have noticed - When things work fine, you rarely hear anything, but when something goes wrong... Well that's when people tend to call, complain, or post about it on the Internet.

For every problem child you read about here, you have to ask yourself just how many Dan Wesson revolvers are out there that you never hear about because they are still going strong many years later.

I have noticed there are pretty much three types of Dan Wesson owners.

1. The kind that never removes a barrel nut, grip, or side plate, and is still happy with the gun.

2. The aficionado like many of us here on the Dan Wesson Forum, who will likely try out every length barrel, different grips, sights, and may even purchase or have purchased a pistol pack or newer exotic style barrel assemblies, or other fun parts like scopes and mounts. This 2nd type seems to like to take everything apart to tinker, clean, and maintain it because they find it fun to do so.

And then we have the third kind of DW owner...

3. This is the person who knows just enough to be dangerous with any tool, especially a Dremel. This person may put loctite on a barrel nut so it wont accidentally come loose, or may strip/cross thread or badly mangle a DW barrel nut. Even worse this third type of owner may be one who has never checked or re-tightened a barrel nut, and then had the barrel assembly fall off the revolver while shooting. Perhaps they sets the barrel to cylinder gap so snug that the cylinder would not turn at all. They may think they are an amateur gun smith, and cuts springs, or grind easily accessible engagement sear surfaces way too far attempting for a better trigger pull, ending up grossly sacrificing functionality and reliability.

All it takes is for the third type of DW owner to complain loudly in gun shops, or these days online, and it tends to start icky reliability rumors regarding Dan Wesson revolvers. Like most here, I have heard a few of them myself.

I know that most here will recognize the third group as well, because many members have bought a basket case Dan from the third kind of owner online, or maybe at a local gun store.

Sadly it's the the third group that likely contributes the most to giving Dan Wesson revolvers a somewhat bad rep. This used to be a good thing, as in the old days you could occasionally pick up a nice Dan Wesson fairly cheap from a shop, but those days are likely in the past now with all the information available online, coupled with the current DW prices on gun broker.

 

- Bulllwolf

GARY ROTH said
I'd like to think i'm in category 2 (the dremel  never left the work bench) but I know nothing about the prior owner. 

BTW, the CZ gunsmith suggested locktite (blue) on the barrel nuts to keep the nut from backing off.  ?

Fedex says the gun is at CZ so now we wait. 

My intention was not to criticize your work, or your abilities with my break down of the 3 types of DW owners Gary, I was just thinking out loud about the different types of DW owners in my post.

The many attempts you made to fix your revolver says volumes about your skill level. Some problems unfortunately are just too complex for us to solve on our own, and require a trip back to the factory. I know there are a few things that I won't attempt to fix myself, like fitting a hand, or cylinder timing for example.

And wow! I was really surprised me to hear the CZ gun smith suggest blue locktite on the barrel nut. At least the blue is not a permanent thread locker, but still...

I personally go so far as to apply anti-sieze (Permatex silver) on my barrel nut and threads so I can be assured of easy removal later. I would never apply any kind of thread locker on a DW barrel or nut, but that's me. I think anyone who ever had to deal with a stuck barrel nut would likely agree with me on that subject.

I hope you get your Dan back from CZ soon, and with a clean bill of health.

 

- Bullwolf