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January 8, 2014
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Help for a new shooter please. I was raised (rifle only) on putting the thing you're shooting at just level with the top of the front/rear sights, just like the images on the left below. I've recently seen discussion on this that indicates some experienced shooters line up the sights with the bottom of the black/red bulls eye disc on a standard paper target ("Sight Image 1" way below) and some use a "driving the dot" picture (#3 way below right).
What is the consensus on proper bulls eye sight picture--6 o'clock position, 3-9 o'clock position, or driving the dot? Thanks.
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January 24, 2009
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I prefer #2, with the item I'm wanting to hit sitting just above the front sight.
I can see any of the three methods as being alright, it's just personal preference to each individual shooter. For me, it's #2.
March 18, 2012
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If you are talking proper bulls eye shooting then the correct hold is the 6 o'clock hold (your #1). It allows you to see your target and align your sights properly. Because you are suppose to have the front sight in focus and the target slightly out of focus it allows you to better see the target even out of focus. Also it is better for long range shooting as again you are not covering your target. However, if you are shooting PPC or three gun or any type of action shooting at combat distances and targets then the # 2 and/or #3 sight pictures are better and taught. You are still trying to concentrate of the front sight but in combat you have a tendency to concentrate on the target and putting the front sight dot on the target is much easier when all fine motor skills are gone. I have shot bulls eye and combat courses and am a law enforcement firearms instructor. I started out shooting bulls eye with the six o'clock hold and had to change when I became an agent. It was a difficult transition for me but can be done. I still fall back to the six o'clock hold when shooting bulls eye and when hunting with open sights. Hope this helps some. When it is all said and done I would choose what works best for you for the type of shooting you are doing.
January 8, 2014
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Thanks guys! forensicfirearms: thanks especially for explaining number 3, which had me stumped. Once you explained it, something clicked in my head: it's the same as crosshairs in a scope. Since I've always used #2 on open sights rifles, I'll probably stick with that.
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Dans Club
February 22, 2009
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Agree with above. I use all three for different situations.
Paper Punching = 1
Hunting = 2
Limited visibility = 3
Technically, the glass is always full; half liquid, half air....
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Dans Club
March 25, 2013
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With my new glasses coming I'll be able to see the front sight to select a method. Lol. Actually I use #2. Does it make a difference if you are shooting fixed sight guns?
March 18, 2012
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Ole Dog, the answer to you question is yes it does make a difference with fixed sight guns. Most fixed sight guns are sighted in for combat distances from three to twenty five yards and are generally set to shoot with the #2 or #3 type sight picture shown above with a standard load. This is especially true for newer guns. I typically shot low with a fixed sight gun, like my Sig P220, if I use a six o'clock hold. Since you use the #2 hold you should be pretty close with fixed sight guns. You will only need to adjust you loads slightly to get point of impact where you want it.
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Dans Club
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July 2, 2011
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"Agree with above. I use all three for different situations. Paper Punching = 1 Hunting = 2 Limited visibility = 3"
I agree with Ron. I think most of civilian types that cut our shooting teeth learning to hunt, tend to default to #2. At the pistol range, I've been experimenting with #1. Results have been mixed. If I can maintain my concentration on #1 my shooting improves. A reload or change in weapon causes me to default to #2, but I'm not giving up on teaching this old dog a new trick.
To the paranoid people who check behind shower curtains for murderers:
if you find one...what's your plan?
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Unless it is a fixed sight weapon (in which case you just need to learn the correct sight picture for that particular gun) I've always used #1, just out of habit I guess. The only "limited visibility" situation I can imagine for me would be self defense, and at handgun self defense range the difference would be negligible, the bulls eye is center of body mass, finished off Mozambique style 
Just to make it easy on me, all my handguns are sighted exactly the same
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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June 25, 2013
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Good question, Good topic, Good Responses.
Ole Dog just for kicks and giggles get a pack of round dime size stickies at the dollar store and use a black magic marker to to darken it. Then take a needle to the center and punch a small hole. Take that stickie and place it on a pair of old glasses or new, it won't hurt them and sight thru that hole. Instant peep sight and a clear sight picture of the rear sight, the front and the target.
Then you can decide if you want to lay out some cash for devices that fit the frames.
It's fun to take these little tangents concerning the art and science of firearms.
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
February 11, 2010
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When I shoot drills, more like three. Can't tell exactly, I'm shooting steel and shooting
fast so it is more like point an shoot with concentration on the target.
If I am aiming and trying to squeeze the best groups on paper it's something
like 1 and 2 but a little lower than 2 but not nearly as low as 1.
-Blacktop
February 26, 2012
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I was taught to shoot a rifle in the military and they used the old "pumpkin on the post" sight picture and adjust the sights to hit center on the bull (picture 1). Now I prefer to sight my iron sighted guns to hit what ever is on top of the front sight (picture 2).
However, if you're shooting a Beretta pistol you have to use sight picture 3 or you will be hitting low. Don't ask me how long it took for me to figure that one out. I also have an older Marlin 22 with an aperture sight that shoots low unless you put the bead where you want to hit. Go figure!
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Maxwell Silver said
Good question, Good topic, Good Responses.
Ole Dog just for kicks and giggles get a pack of round dime size stickies at the dollar store and use a black magic marker to to darken it. Then take a needle to the center and punch a small hole. Take that stickie and place it on a pair of old glasses or new, it won't hurt them and sight thru that hole. Instant peep sight and a clear sight picture of the rear sight, the front and the target.
Then you can decide if you want to lay out some cash for devices that fit the frames.
It's fun to take these little tangents concerning the art and science of firearms.
And this would be the device:
http://www.meritcorporation.com/products.html
And it works, mine was half this cost about 8 years ago, and it works very well with these old eyes when shooting 50' Bullseye
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
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Dans Club
March 25, 2013
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Thank you Arlen and Steve. It has been a journey learning to shoot. My wife says my form is good. I realize I have to work on my trigger pull and breathing. I have no problem shooting center mass at small yards but small groups at 15 to 25 yds. become the vision problem. I plunk down $500 to 1500 for a dan in a heartbeat but kept putting of new glasses. My close vision has gotten worse but my distance vision better. I'm still very nearsighted. My opthmologist is making me TRIfocals with the middle lens good at 36"(front sight distance). He said my corrected distance vision is now 16/20. I don't think I've ever been even 20/20 before. Also got 3 magnetic clip on sunshades( dark, 3D, and yellow). I will try the dot with the pinhole on the yellow(glare) pair. I can keep it on for shooting. Do I only do the dominant eye and keep my useless right eye closed or do both. Should have them this week. Set me back the price of 715. Will save me a bunch in wasted ammo though. It is probably like golf. I have observed virtually nobody leaves the golf course happy. I'll fill you in soon, thanks, Ron
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June 25, 2013
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Ole Dog said
Do I only do the dominant eye and keep my useless right eye closed or do both. Should have them this week. Set me back the price of 715. Will save me a bunch in wasted ammo though. It is probably like golf. I have observed virtually nobody leaves the golf course happy. I'll fill you in soon, thanks, Ron
The stickies are throw aways and cost nothing. I have a lever action 357 Model 92. It has what I think are terrible sights. The rear are buckhorn and the front a small brass dot.
I see nothing but blur on the rear sight and the target when I focus on the front sight.
Now to that question of both eyes. Shutting one eye creates a sort of tension, an unnecessary, distracting discomfort aiming a firearm. Learning to keep both eyes open and using your dominant eye while ignoring the other eye is a learned skill. Some find it easy and others don't.
Now back to that lever rifle. I took the stickie and placed it on the part of my glasses that I would sight through with the gun at my shoulder. That stickie was in the top left corner of the right eye glass. Then a few shots were made and through that pinhole I could see the buckhorn rear sight and front sight and the target in perfect clarity. That peephole does what a camera aperture does, I'll let you google that.
Then it struck me to take another darkened stickie and place in the top left corner of the left lens and blocked the view of my non-dominate eye. My face felt much more relaxed leaving that eye open. It became more comfortable aiming not clamping an eye shut or trying to make the ghost image of the non-dominate eye disappear. It could be used as a training aid. But the goal is both eyes open.
Now, there are these real whizz bang shooters out there on the circuits. I'm sure they all got their tricks to help them get so good. I'm wondering if any of them are using this peep sight stickie technology on the inside of their shooting shades? Hmmmmmmm.......
P.S. A quick test using this technique is to put a stickie on your normal glasses and hold up a sharpened pencil at arms length and look out side at something 100 feet away using the pencil as your sight.
Endeavor to persevere,
Press on regardless.
Need little, want less, love more.
Dans Club
March 2, 2008
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Maybe this helps, maybe not:
I am a right handed shooter, left eye dominant. I try to always shoot both eyes open and understand that I will twist my head right a bit to allow my dominant eye to line up properly. I want to shoot both eyes open so I can see as much as possible through in my entire field of vision.
The exception to this is the scope on my AR, right eye all the way, but the rifle, scope, and I are all set up that way
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman "Were is the Self Help Section?" She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.
George Carlin
Dans Club
December 5, 2008
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Ole Dog, I have a similar eye situation - distance great but glasses for reading (Walmart 1.5's). I've always shot with left eye closed and focusing on the front sight leaving target & rear sight a bit fuzzy. Kept reading about shooting with both eyes open, so started practicing it. For me the trick is to focus on the target and bring the sights to the target. Since the target equals distance, I now shoot without my glasses (just clear safety glasses). The sights are equally a bit fuzzy, but I don't get the double sight picture problem that I did with both eyes open & focusing on the front sight. I don't know if that's the parallax effect or not. It's working for me and feels more natural every time I shoot.
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