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June 3, 2009
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Hi Guys
as some of you have noticed, I have had an issue or two with my Model 15, but happily, it is getting better every day, and I am very pleased with it.
Given the experiences over the past few days, I thought a froum where we can share our home tune up experiences might be handy. So below is the latest from me from the old topic. I'd be very keen to hear about other tune up possibilities for my DW, as working on it myself was a very large part of the decision to puy DW in the first place.
John, Adelaide
A further update on the tuning job of the Model 15 – I have backed out the trigger travel stop screw a full turn and a half (behind trigger, hits frame and prevents trigger overtravel). Trigger was actually bottoming out on the trigger guard, not the stop. That should fix the tendency for the trigger to not return when dirty – made a difference of an 1/8″ to overall travel AND has reduced the tendency to slam home against the frame when fired double action – if I didnt hold tight enough in double action, the muzzle end tended to move down and to the left (left handed) when the trigger would let go, particularly before I evened out the cylinder to barrel gap.
As there is now significantly less travel, there is less time for the trigger finger and the trigger to “speed up” before hitting the trigger guard or the trigger stop.
Now to the very busy part of the last day or two – the gap between cylinder andbarrel: After spending all that time as reported yesterday getting the cylinder so that it travelled reasonably uniformly, I gave everything a very thorough clean with a brass brish and B1 solvent, lightly lubed with tri-flow teflon oil, and held the cylinder next to my ear and dry fired – I was clearly able to hear a difference in noise upon rotation of two of the chambers, and a slight increase in resistance to rotation / resistance to trigger movement on the same two chambers.
So I sat and looked at it for a while – then decided to try different thickness feeler gauges in the gap to see what it showed me. Putting .005″ feeler gauge between cylinder and barrel, loosely supported but certainly not held by me, I worked the trigger – surprise surprise – the two cylinders which had been noisy locked up, and I was unable to removed the feeler gauge without an unreasonable amount of force.
Not being sure of how much pressure was “Usual”, I dropped back down to .002″ and redid the experiment – this time, as I rotated the cylinder using the trigger, I watched closely to see if the feeler gauge got “pulled in” towards the barrel by the rotation of the cylinder. On two of the chambers, this is exacxtly what happended.
I then opened the action, and gently polished the high spots off using a very fine grit wet and dry emery. This I repeated until the .002 gap no longer wanted to be pulled into the action upon cycling the action / rotating the cylinder. With the .002 gauge still in place, I then fully worked the trigger, held it back to the rear of the trigger guard once trigger down, and pulled the feeler gauge in each position. The gauge was able to be removed relatively readily, although firmly, and felt as though the pressure from the ball bearing was partially responsible for the felt pressure.
I then went to .003″ and repeated the exercise – this time, the .003 feeler gauge was pulled into the action on 3 of the chambers. Following the same procedure as above, I removed material until the .003″ gauge remained in place without being pulled into the action when all 6 chambers were rotated using the trigger.
Again I retested at full lockup using the .003 gauge, and again it felt quite firm, but much more even that before.
Finally, I used a .004 feeler gauge and redid the entire exercise – this time I had bearing on 4 of the 6 cylinders, with the cycling action of the cylinder pulling the feeler gauge into the action. Removing material as before, I got it to the point where the .004 gauge no longer pulled into the gap, and the removal of it under full lock up (trigger held back after hammer release) was uniform and firm, but felt ” about right”.
The final test was to use a .005 feeler gauge inserted between cylinder and barrel, and to cycle the revolver using th trigger mechanism in double action. Yahoooooo – the feeler gauge was pulled into the gap between barrel and cylinder EVERY time I cycled the action via the trigger.
According to my way of thinking, I have got the cylinder pretty close to right in terms of being at right angles to the face of the barrel.
The final test – I recleaned, reoiled with a thin smear of teflon oil, wiped it clean and held the cylinder to my ear as I cycled the action – sounded pretty much the same on each chamber, felt about the same on each chamber, so I'm reasonable happy with that.
A question for you long term owners of DWs – what gap settings do you use for your revolvers, and does the action pull the feeler gauge in if you cycle the trigger at that adjustment – as I have described above.
Sorry this is abot long winded, but I'm keen to understand the experienced hands version of tightness, and find that pulling a gauge out is much more variable than leaving one sit there, and cycling the machine.
Any information gratefully appreciated, and thanks to all you folk who have been so helpful. This is a great forum.
Model 15-2V 6" Blued
September 16, 2008
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I had a Dan Wesson Stainless .357 that had a similar problem.
If I set the barrel/cylinder gap smaller than .004, the cylinder would bind on the face of the barrel on a couple of chambers.
I have heard before that Dan Wesson would heat treat the cylinders after machining and sometimes there would be a distortion on the face of the cylinder.
My solution was to face the front of the cylinder in a small but accurate lathe. I carefully applied layout blue and shaved .002 from the face of the cylinder. Now I can set the gap down to .002 with no binding.
It sounds like you did the same thing manually and will likely have no further trouble with the revolver.
Since then I have checked out several other revolvers from other makes and have learned that most are perfectly faced.
It only shows up with Dan Wesson's more because you are able to set the cylinder gap so small.
Don't worry if you messed up the blue on the face of the cylinder, after you blast about 12 rounds it will look like all other revolvers.
January 22, 2008
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Just a note but the cylinders on Norwich guns should be true. The practice B. Allen speaks of was used at Monson and Palmer when making the cylinders.
Once production move to Norwich they started finishing the Cylinder after the heat treating process.
February 2, 2009
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Thanks for the details John and as Jody said that's only a problem on the preNorwich models as they faced the cylinders after heat treating, which is what S&W and Ruger do. The max gap on most DW's was .006, but .002 to .004 was what most people use; as the tighter gap produces faster bullets. The exception is the 357 Supermag that requires .002 to reduce flame cutting of the top strap (which wasn't a problem with 180 to 200gr cast bullets). I always set the gap on my model 15 at .004 as I didn't want to try facing my cylinder and that gap would allow complete rotation without binding and rotated fine even after several rounds.
Range Officer
Range Officers
Dans Club
February 28, 2009
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Verrry interesting! I guess I'm just lucky. I set the gap at .002 on all of my DW's and none of them bind. BTW, 7 are Monson and 1 is a Palmer.
-Mike
September 16, 2008
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Thanks Jody for the information concerning the cylinder facing, post heat treating @ Norwich. I have never owned a model from that plant so its always good to learn something new.
I still believe that the basic Dan Wesson double action revolver design is superior to any other make, irregardless, of some minor issues that have cropped up with folks.
June 3, 2009
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Help with my gap please -
If I pull back on the cylinder spring / ball bearing to open the gap to its maximum, I can fit a .010" feeler gauge into the gap - a tight fit. If I do the same thing when holding the trigger back after hammer drop fully locked up, the gap is also .010" and tight.
When I release the clyinder to travel forward under the action of the spring / ball bearing, the gap closes completely - I cannot see light from the other side.
If I slide the .002 spacer down the face of the cylinder til it meets the barrel, there is some resistance, but I can push the spacer into the gap.
A .003 spacer can be pushed into the gap, but with more difficultly and I can feel and hear the cylinder drop off the gauge when I pull it out.
I cannot get the .004 spacer in without opening the action first, or pulling the cylinder to the rear - when I do this it fits and operates under tension
So I guess that I have a gap or .002 to .003.
Would you guys agree? Or should I be able to see daylight through the gap?
Another thing I have noticed is that side of my barrel which first contacts the rotating cylinder is worn, with a slight chamfer on the leading edge. I assume this has been caused by wear from soot and fouling over the years. Is this common? A .004 spacer will fit under the very beginning of the leading edge here, but does not seem to go through into the barrel opening proper.
Should I back out the barrel to the frame and level the barrel as well?
And while I'm at it, is there any other symmetry or right angle relationships I should check.
Mine (according to Dusty's help) is around about a 1976 manufacture, and is from Monson.
Also interested in any other tips on smoothing the trigger action even further.
Just for the record, I love the simplicity of these revolvers.
John, Adelaide
Model 15-2V 6" Blued
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